Forum Post: Do Republicans serve a purpose in American politics today?
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 14, 2012, 9:28 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8310)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I remember in the 1980’s when the GOP was working the “politics of envy” hard against the evil auto unions whose fat lazy members were drinking beer on the job and building crappy cars, I’m sure Mitt’s father knows all about this and so does Mitt. Today the GOP is still trying to turn Americans who aren’t lucky enough to have a good paying union job against those who do, telling Americans that it’s the fault of people trying to build a middle class life that their state has no money, pay no attention to the billionaires. In those days I was often told that there was once a need for unions, when people were dying in mines (BTW they still do) and sweat shops (there still are) but not anymore. So it got me thinking, seems the only purpose of the GOP is to cut/hold down taxes on the wealthiest Americans, back in the 1950’s when the top rate was 90% there might have been a need for Republicans, but now when you can make 20 million and pay less than 14% I think the time for Republicans has past.
Do Republicans serve a purpose in American politics today?
Sure - They provide cover for the Dems. Good cop - Bad cop
BOTH sides have a corporatist agenda !!
Remember back when we got along better sparky? When this election is over and Romney is no longer a threat, I think we might do that again ;).
I think your and my goals are closely aligned; it's how we achieve those goals is where we disagree. I've tried it your way (from within the system) for the last 40+ years and I (and the nation) are running out of time.
Although we might 'bite' each others heads off occasionally, we shouldn't take it personally because we're just trying to stress our own perspectives. I suggest that we concentrate on the issues instead of labels. Labels tend to alienate people who might otherwise be sympathetic to your views. This is not so much the case with you and I .................... but something we ALL should consider.
You know as well as I, as far as politicians go - "Actions speak much louder than their rhetoric, if we just take the time to LISTEN to their ACTIONS. Close your ears to their words and open your eyes to their actions and the REASONS for their actions.
Cheers Bud !!
Ok so with all the union talk going on maybe I was just a little proud of this post, so you know.
I've knocked a lot of doors myself, then was a cap'n for moveon in 04. My main bitch is the left leaves the best stuff "on the shelf" I think things are tough when you got to ask rich people for money, so you can be heard because telling the truth is likely to piss off a lot of rich people.
Good morning Sparky, hey you still do good reseach, thanks for going easy on me.
Good Morning FF. and thanx. Easy on you? You know I only shoot at what I have a bead on. Hell, you're one of the good guys :)
Hey Sparky what do you think of this thing?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/message-to-occupy-from-httpwwwthe99declarationorg/
Yes I've seen it and have considered running for delegate. I've also just made a small donation and urge anyone that can; to do the same. Freedom is not free.
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. ~Thomas Jefferson~
The only thing that I don't agree with; is that they give the crooks in office another chance. The thieves have already shown their true colors ..... and they're NOT red, white and blue!!
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." ~ Abraham Lincoln ~
Support a Direct Democracy -
http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
Cheers :)
Hey I value your opinion, thanks for your input. I hadn't seen it the first time through, the nature of our political funding requires all to kneel before the 1% for the money needed to run, then when in office they can only do those things that the 1% let them do, the trick is finding those who want to do the bidding of the 1% and separating those from the ones that don’t. I think getting rid of all elected Republicans is a good start.
I think that this flood of money coming into the elections may backfire on them and not have the impact they intended. People are starting to turn-off on 'bought' candidates.
I think the Super Pacs may scare even those who thought they mattered in America, the ones with net worth between 10 and 100 million. When the billionairs start writing 10 million dollar checks even the kinda rich may realize they better do something to stop this befor it's too late, even for them.
You're right. It won't be long before they're cannibalizing each other.
Reasons to vote Repelican:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ege_RBhh37A&hd=1
must vote republican......must vote republican
(I've been using the"and we'll prove it" line for years, good to see somebody else gets it)
wow, harsh : D
Indeed. I would advise all (R)epelican'ts to stay asleep on Nov 4, for their own good and the good of the Nation.
I have always suggested they just go hunting. Get a case of beer and go shoot something, like the moon.
If they drink enough beer, they'll just pass out anyway..............:)
You drink douche, douche suck fag ass prick face. Your nose is a flaccid dick, get it suckbutt?
You go vote on the 5th shoo hole. You are an ugly puke sucking fag ass lib hole. Fuck a piece of shit douche drinker.
Hey,...I'm your huckaberry...
Reagan insider: 'GOP destroyed U.S. economy'
Get it? Not "destroying." The GOP has already "destroyed" the U.S. economy, setting up an "American Apocalypse."
Yes, Stockman is equally damning of the Democrats' Keynesian policies. But what this indictment by a party insider -- someone so close to the development of the Reaganomics ideology -- says about America, helps all of us better understand how America's toxic partisan-politics "holy war" is destroying not just the economy and capitalism, but the America dream. And unless this war stops soon, both parties will succeed in their collective death wish.
We've arrived at a historic turning point as a nation that no longer needs outside enemies to destroy us, we are committing suicide. Democracy. Capitalism. The American dream. All dying. Why? Because of the economic decisions of the GOP the past 40 years, says this leading Reagan Republican.
Please listen with an open mind, no matter your party affiliation: This makes for a powerful history lesson, because it exposes how both parties are responsible for destroying the U.S. economy.
Reagan Republican: the GOP should file for bankruptcy
Stockman rushes into the ring swinging like a boxer: "If there were such a thing as Chapter 11 for politicians, the Republican push to extend the unaffordable Bush tax cuts would amount to a bankruptcy filing. The nation's public debt ... will soon reach $18 trillion." It screams "out for austerity and sacrifice." But instead, the GOP insists "that the nation's wealthiest taxpayers be spared even a three-percentage-point rate increase."
In the past 40 years Republican ideology has gone from solid principles to hype and slogans. Stockman says: "Republicans used to believe that prosperity depended upon the regular balancing of accounts -- in government, in international trade, on the ledgers of central banks and in the financial affairs of private households and businesses too."
No more. Today there's a "new catechism" that's "little more than money printing and deficit finance, vulgar Keynesianism robed in the ideological vestments of the prosperous classes" making a mockery of GOP ideals. Worse, it has resulted in "serial financial bubbles and Wall Street depredations that have crippled our economy." Yes, GOP ideals backfired, crippling our economy.
Stockman's indictment warns that the Republican party's "new policy doctrines have caused four great deformations of the national economy, and modern Republicans have turned a blind eye to each one:"
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/reagan-insider-gop-destroyed-us-economy-2010-08-10
I remember seeing him in some interviews talking about this I think, thanks for the link, I think in general empires tend to fall in upon themsleves, anyway thanks.
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thanks for stopping by, here's a piece about just how far taxes have been cut
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46979738/ns/msnbc-up_with_chris_hayes/#48275177
Has anyone figured out what their purpose is yet?
Listening to the debates, they are all out to lunch.
Seems the Protectors of the Crown (trolls, 1%ers, ect.), feel the GOP sever to "balance" the dems, as if the dems were fighting for the people or something. Seems to me the dems are confused enough without having the GOP around. No one debates that all they ever want to do is lower taxes, nobody has chimed in with that time the GOP found that perfect “time” to raise taxes, you might of noticed the number of times they say “This is not the time to raise taxes.”
For the last few decades, I just see them as not helpful.
They only seem to worry about who is republicaner.
Who's Christianer. Who hates the left more.
I have yet to find 'a' one of them who can recall one single piece of good legislation, that came about after 8yrs of Bush, yet they continue to push for that same style of legislation...........Even here.
And now they cry for common ground.
To them common ground is do what they want.
None will say what Bush did wrong, yet none want to run on his record.
I believe many of them came here to divide the movement.
They have no idea what Bush did wrong, because they where brought in by those that support those policies.
They can't comprehend it, because it's not their job.
Yes when faced with the possibility of actual change there are several defenses for the 1% to deploy:
Split the movement; turn them on each other so the diffused voice can be drowned out.
Shift the intent to meaningless rearranging of the chairs, here this takes the form "It's about Campaign Reform, or do "tax reform" but don't talk about raising taxes. That would be like a 1%er not talking about spending cuts not addressing tax increases makes the movement sort of pointless.
Another tactic of course is to push for pie in the sky solutions like everybody standing on a street corner writing laws, some people may really believe we can do this, but can you imagine what a guy with a bag of money could get done in that environment?
This is why I occasionally like point out the link that brought us here.
The one that really needs further investigation and clarification.
The one the trolls are here to lead us away from.
OccupyWallStreet.
With WallStreet being the operative term.........:)
Well said, this is about how Wall Street has a choke hold on our entire society. The hard truth is we can’t stop the movement and leave the power intact, which means moving some of the money, some way or another. Now they are not going to allow this to happen easily. There has been some work done looking at those who receive or create trust funds for their children. It is a specific action that almost completely separates us. Those with them date and marry within themselves and those who never receive one have a less and less chance of leaving one in America. When they see how many Americans have a gut feeling that things aren’t fair (enough) the 1% are getting worried, or at least I think so.
There are so many ways WallStreet screws us, it's hard to enumerate them.
They meet in their steel and glass towers and control everything they have a controlling interest in, and that's almost everything of consequence.
They let their buddies, like the Kochs, take care of the rest.
Too many times money is used not as an honest tool, but as a weapon. It is held out to those that often have no choice but to accept it, then the holder of the bond owns your life, or your country in the case of the IMF. Too many in this country hold the right of money over the rights of the people through democracy.
WallStreet=Mafia.
They really do work that way. They are in a position to work extortion like nobody else.
They're also the Worlds sharpest loan sharks.
One corporate citizen, loans another corporate citizen, a big pile of money, and expects the vig to be paid quarterly (dividends).
Miss the constantly rising vig too often, and they start calling in the loan. IE: Stock sell off.
Effectively breaking the knees of that corporate citizen.
morning Shooz here's a response I been using along this line:
True, when they talk about running the government like a business I think people don’t always think of what that means. To them the government should serve its customers the tax payers, the more tax they pay (or get out of paying with your help) the bigger customer they are and all businesses know you have to keep your big clients happy, so of course they write laws to appeal to their biggest customers.
Exactly why we need to kill corporations as people.
Make it possible to go back to proper regulation of them.
I heard somewhere, that in the early days of corporations, as we know them, the laws kept them separated. IE: One corporation, could not own shares of another. Kind of like Glass Steagall on steroids.
Might have been wiser, to keep it that way.
WallStreet as we know it, would have been much different animal.
Yep. Monopoly by any other name.
Is still just wrong.
Stop by some time: http://occupywallst.org/forum/in-case-you-were-wondering-re-gaining-government/
Hey, they have a jobs plan. It is prayer. The pray for two things. That you have a job and that the unemployment number is 10% in October. No, that's wrong. They pray that the Kochs' don't cut off the TP candidates and that unemployment is 10% in October.
You know your right, I'll have to think about that. Still seems a big price to pay, just for a paryer, my retirement and all.
Todays (R)epelican'ts serve the purpose of keeping as many Bush policies in place as they can, by any means they can.
This would put them at least 3 years past their expiration date.
All they do now, is smell funny.
Todays (R)epelican'ts serve the purpose of reminding us what insanity really looks like.
Thanks for stopping by shooz. You are so good at cutting right through the bullcrap.
The thing that the Rupubicans are excellent at is the dictating of terms and conditions of politics. They seek "wedge issues" with which to divide the electorate into splinter groups. They seek to find a way to tap into something inside people that is "just below the surface" or perhaps buried even more deeply in people. Then it's a matter of repetition of "catch words" and/or "catch phrases" a kind of code speak, if you will. An example of this is the notion of a "war on Christmas."
How is it that so many have been led away from the American ideal of inclusiveness and tolerance? What deeper psychological implication does this steering away from ethical principles have? If that intolerance is wedged out in enough voters and they can then more identify with Republican thinking. So, they're in effect "voting for Christmas", they're voting for the unborn, they're voting against "the nanny state."
"Lower taxes for the rich? Who cares. I'm voting for Jesus!"
I find this sort of thing highly offensive
Thank you for adding to the thread, I think these wedge issiues are going to start breaking against them in a big way. They depend a lot on keeping young people being turned off on poltics. I kind of remember the sixties (I was young) but a big part of that was young people realizing their voices were as important as anybody elses'. Time is on our side, I just hope we have enough time.
It sounds as though you and I are in the same age bracket.
We got a place here too. Sometimes I have to remind myself when talking to my son, how would I have reacted at his age? When I do, he’s light-years ahead of me, so that gives me hope too.
Like others, I do grow impatient from time to time and have posted a couple of "mini-rants." Like you, I too have to take a step back and remind myself of how I might have reacted when I was a much younger person.
I agree with you about how so many here are "wise beyond their years", if you will. There are quite a few very bright people here who are extremely knowlegeable and have excellent writing skills. They have great depth and insight into social and political matters.They hang in there and weather the storms that come. They are determined and they have grit. That allows me to be hopeful for the possibilities of positive change. Perhaps we can stop this "trainwreck" after all.
Hear, here.
nope and neither do democraps
So tell me then how do we get the Republicans out of office then? Or do you not care if we actually get anything done, would you rather we not?
The rethugs in office today ( as they certainly are not republicans ) serve to point out the evil that the peoples government should be fighting tooth and nail.
here's a piece you may have heard it, about the shrinking middle class
http://thedianerehmshow.org/audio-player?nid=15963
Since unions are on the topic list these days, this onepoints out something important about the way "they" talk about unions vs CEOs how different they treat the two.
The gop just sells legislation to the highest bidder. The gop is anti American.
True, when they talk about running the government like a business I think people don’t always think of what that means. To them the government should serve its customers the tax payers, the more tax they pay (or get out of paying with your help) the bigger customer they are and all businesses know you have to keep your big clients happy, so of course they write laws to appeal to their biggest customers.
If it is a truthful statement (and it may not be) that Republicans = Conservatives and Democrats = Liberals, then the only purpose I can see for Republicans is to function as a mechanism to restrain runaway Liberal social action. Liberals are for making improvements to society for the betterment of all. History is replete with examples of the improvements they have made. Republicans do not like change, love the status quo, and will fight to keep it. One is a force for improvement. The other is a force for do-nothingness.
Thanks for the comments.
Great post! Check THIS ARTICLE OUT by Matt Taibbi. You'll LOVE it. :) http://m.rollingstone.com/entry/view/id/22704/pn/all/p/0/?KSID=afa8cb27c0160ca757154e689ab15151
Somethin' about AZ,
brings out the crazy,
in everybodie'
Ha! :)
what is the republicans take on menance of out sourcing? why they never talk about it? do they know what is out sourcing?
Out sourcing is just another way to put people against each other, fighting for scraps.
Both Republicans and Democrats serve big business and neither party truly serves the American people. Their purpose is to give you the illusion that you have a choice. We are all tired of the two party dominance and I think it's time we give a third, forth and fifth party a chance. I may not agree with 100% of the Green Party or the Constitution Party or any other third party group but I think it's time they have a larger role in American politics. Congress currently has a 9% approval rating. How do we NOT have a legitimate third party running for office?
Here is my line of thought on those things:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/some-call-me-a-fool-for-thinking-that-supporters-o/
The Constitution does not allow for three parties to exist at the same time I think we have to make one party so weak we can break the other in half, I don’t see any reason for having any Republicans in office anywhere, then it will be easy to pull off the dems that believe as we do, as well as pick up others.
Is that satire or do you have some different version of the Constitution?
No I've really looked at it closely while my son was getting his political science degree we looked through all the letters and supporting docs, just didn’t see any way three parties can stand for any length of time, that’s why it hasn’t happen before. Do you see some way?
Yeah, conservatives are welcome in this movement....
Of course if their only propuse here is protect the interest of the 1% then we may not have much to talk about.
All that are willing to raise taxes on the wealthy are welcome.
those people make money from money to improve the capitalist system for everyone. They should be given bonuses for being able to make so much.
Where should will draw the the line on how much they are able to make?
the government is holding the market back by not promoting the winners even greater by giving them bonus
So you don't think letting them pay less than 14% while hard working Americans have to pay as much as 45% to Washington, isn't that "rewarding" them enough? What's wrong with promoting hard work? You are really so grateful to these guys for being willing to make money off their money that you think we should reward them for it? Well I don't.
What do you think of them sending people to Washington to give them tax cuts, then turn around and borrow the money from them to pay the bills. Now working people got to pay them and their's interest forever, and we should be grateful? I don’t think so.
Divide and conquer- works like a charm
Yep, cut out the Republicans, then divide the dems and conquer them. Welcome aboard!!
Sorry, your Dem party is funded by just as many criminals. Instead of trying to fix something that is structurally flawed, we could do a variety of things instead....
But people are STUCK in a D vs R paradigm....
And that is why nothing ever changes.
as soon as we get rid of the R's it will....
They have you right where they want you. Bowing to one side of the duopoly.
Why do you think the Dems are weaker, and easier to "take over"?
I think the R's are much weaker, that's why they are so afraid of what is being said here. I don't pick the Dem's because they are weaker but because I think some of them can be saved. All Republicans are a lost cause.
You are the only lost cause in this discussion.
Go study some more poly sci classes, and then go join the duopoly.
PS- if you go on conservative forums, the same is true, just vise versa. Duh.
I am starting to think you might be conservative the way you make no points, and then declare victory. Thanks for stopping by.
And your thinking that I may be pushed into one of two corners in the media's portrayal of politics is also very telling.
Time to wake up.
The evil few in the 1% are the Ranchers.
We the 99% People are the cattle.
Republicons are the cowboys.
LOL I love this you got wit too dude, (now I happen to be straight, not that your not, this subtext isn't working out as funny as I was hoping it would) AKWARD!! Rock on Dude!
I used it in the gruesome 80s RayGun years when they were setting all this current 1% hell up. Thanx.
Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!! ©
Image & Vote! Image & Vote! "We the 1%" Is NOT What They Wrote!! ©
oldie but goldie
Without the Rs - where would Archie Bunker go
Even Archie wouldn't vote for these guys.
I recently watched some All in the Family episodes ( from 1971 )
They really made me laugh -
but then I saw from a different, terrifying, disgusting perspective -
America still has tens of millions of Archies -
led by grover & rupert & david & charles & alec -
who worship michelle and sarah and rick and rick and newt
....>>>>>>>>>>>>>..HOW DID WE LET THIS HAPPEN ?
it's been many years since I've seen All in the Family, but as I remember even with all the uncertainity Archie had about the things happening around him, Archie was a honest hard working bigot, I imagine I have some friends now I didn't have then (growing up in east TN) that could show me a lot of things I didn't see back then. I think these guys are for the most part of silver spoons that don't know crap about work, except maybe one rick, but he's just crazy. Hey for fun promise I didn't look them up, taxman, FOX, Koch bros, but you got me on alec
If you think you know America’s biggest threat,
..Koch ?
….Norquist ?
……Iran ?
………Boehner ?
………...McConnell ?
you are wrong –
……spend ten minutes with each of these
American Legislative Exchange Council
http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed
http://www.alecwatch.org/
http://www.thenation.com/article/161973/alec-exposed-koch-connection
.............................................BE AFRAID – VERY AFRAID
Thanks I should have got it, heard of these guys thanks to OWS, was stuck thinking of names (I thought Alec Trebeck?), teach me not to think outside the box, OMG just sliped into corperatespeak, must do more detox.
declock will work better if you use them together detox & detix
one at time if you know what I mean...shhh..don't let them know we're coming
Fiscal responsibility?
oh the kind that Bush brought?
I'm a Republican who didn't vote for Bush on any of the times when he was on my ballot.
But a bigger concern here is that a lot of the 99% are Republicans, so if Occupy is supposed to be about representing the concerns of the 99%, as opposed to Democrats, then all of this is divisive and counter productive.
You win the prize! THAT is why these "people" have never, and will never, represent anyone but the democrat party.
All of these divisive "repelican" epithets are part of what turned me off to this whole thing. What illustrated to me that this is not a movement where I would be welcome.
So I hired a new employee through this site and then pretty much stopped participating. He's doing great. This forum, not so much...
You are welcome to reread the post if you like. Do you also believe taxes on the wealthest Americans should be lower more? If you do then I pray you are in the minority come election time, I would welcome any Republican willing to raise taxes on the wealthy.
Is this movement going to be about uniting the 99%? Or is this just another left-wing web site?
I welcome anyone willing to raise taxes on the wealthy.
Does fighting for the interests of the 99% percent necessarily involve hurting the scapegoat? Is Occupy fighting for the 99%, or against the 1%? There is a difference.
bringing balance back to our tax system isn't scapegoating anyone
What is puzzling is the focus here on the need to take from others. If someone has a talent for opera we don't force them to sing off-key to make the tone-deaf feel better. If however you have a talent for making money we want the Gov to force you to give up what you earned out of some weird idea that you must be punished for your accomplishment.
We punish the highest achievers among us. Usually if you tax something you get less of it (smoking comes to mind). Why do we want less achievement?
And when the CEO's give themselves 20% and their workers two where are you asking why are they punishing their workers? Life is not fair, get over it, if we don't change the course we're on the system is going to break. The price of having a free enterprise system is the unfairness of government rebalancing the scale so society can continue.
I think that we have agreement. Life is not fair and people are not equal.
The question is what, if anything, can or should be done about it?
We can let Gov try to force people to be equal and lose liberty, or we can choose freedom and sacrifice safety.
As I said before if you look at the trends the current path is not sustainable.
below you will find the infinite pie theory if anyone wants to defend it I'll look for the thread
Only if you assume that there is only one pie. It always has been, and remains so, that we can bake more pies.
Draw a line across US GDP growth from the signing of the Constitution. The line has a positive slope.
The solution to the problem is freedom, not bigger Gov.
Instead of coveting the wealth of others we should put energy into making everyone wealthy. It is not a zero-sum game.
punishment or fairplay? trying to paint this as punishment for successful people is not what we're talking about here. there is a big difference between taking from others and others paying their fair share. when large corporations receive government subsidies then pay no taxes who is taking from who? when extremely wealthy individuals pay a lower tax rate than their employees who is taking from who?
When you were a kid and your parents took away our allowance, did they do that to reward you for your good behavior?
Get rid of corporate taxes. They are a hidden regressive tax on the poor and makes the US un-competitive with the rest of the world. The Gov trys to trick us with corp taxes when it is really a tax on consumers.
The goal should be to raise revenue not regulate our behavior using the tax code (liquor tax). Try taxing the rich and you will regulate their travel behavior, right out of the US.
your analogy with the child's allowance doesn't make any sense at all. we're not talking about punishment. everyone should pay their share and the wealthiest, those who truly can afford to, should not shirk their patriotic duty to pay their fair share. btw, i wish any who leave a safe trip.
Well at first the rich will just leave the state:
MARCH 12, 2010 Maryland’s Mobile Millionaires Income tax rates go up, rich taxpayers vanish.
Illinois Governor Pat Quinn is the latest Democrat to demand a tax increase, this week proposing to raise the state’s top marginal individual income tax rate to 4% from 3%. He’d better hope this works out better than it has for Maryland.
We reported in May that after passing a millionaire surtax nearly one-third of Maryland’s millionaires had gone missing, thus contributing to a decline in state revenues. The politicians in Annapolis had said they’d collect $106 million by raising its income tax rate on millionaire households to 6.25% from 4.75%. In cities like Baltimore and Bethesda, which apply add-on income taxes, the top tax rate with the surcharge now reaches as high as 9.3%—fifth highest in the nation. Liberals said this was based on incomplete data and that rich Marylanders hadn’t fled the state.
Well, the state comptroller’s office now has the final tax return data for 2008, the first year that the higher tax rates applied. The number of millionaire tax returns fell sharply to 5,529 from 7,898 in 2007, a 30% tumble. The taxes paid by rich filers fell by 22%, and instead of their payments increasing by $106 million, they fell by some $257 million. [...]
A Bank of America Merrill Lynch analysis of federal tax return data on people who migrated from one state to another found that Maryland lost $1 billion of its net tax base in 2008 by residents moving to other states. That’s income that’s now being taxed and is financing services in Virginia, South Carolina and elsewhere. [...]
Thanks in part to its soak-the-rich theology, Maryland still has a $2 billion deficit and Montgomery County is $760 million in the red. Governor Martin O’Malley’s office tells us he wants the higher rates to expire “as scheduled at the end of 2010.” But there are bills in both chambers of the legislature to extend the surcharge. The state’s best hope is that politicians in other states are as self-destructive as those in Annapolis.
Being part of the 99% and not a Democrat does not mean that you don't want the wealthy to pay less taxes, it means that you want everyone to pay less taxes.
and I want to win the lottery but we should talk about realistic soltions, when it has dropped from 92% to 14% it's fallen too far and it will not be easy to raise it back up, unless we do, we're lost
The percentage is not the problem. The problem is that half the people in the US pay no federal income taxes. That means that we have reached a tipping point. Now there is nothing to stop the half that pay no taxes to vote themselves money from the half that does. And the half that does pay taxes are not all rich. 30% of the taxes are paid by people making $ 66k or less.
All democracies are doomed once the people discover they can vote themselves largess. - De Tocqueville
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html
http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
So the problem is the people who work night and day to make this country go, and get virtually nothing for their labor? OK the GOP is always talking about lifting people up not tearing people down, so let's fix this by raising minimum wage high enough so that everyone with a job will have to pay income taxes.
Would it not be better to increase the national prosperity, and world prosperity for that matter, so that no one makes minimum wage, whatever it is?
People in democracies should learn to use extortion, like WallStreet does.
It must yield a better ROI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTbLslkIR2k&feature=youtu.be
Thanks for the link. One reason we ended up here is people thinking their vote doesn’t matter or that both sides are about the same. That kind of thinking cause people to default to the tax cut position that’s what the 1% depends on.
I tend to try and emphasis those differences that do appear, minimum wage, public funding of elections, encouraging voting rather than suppressing it, that sort of thing so we can at least move in a good direction.
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Does preemptive war serve a purpose when throughout history it has shown to have serious negative side effects long term?
Vote out the warmongers. The warmongers are often the closest tied to the top of the 1% that pulls the strings of the government.
Obama has ended one and announance the end of the other, read the news, if you can't tell how quickly Republicans go to war, then you're not paying attention
Who uses Black Water? Bush or Obama?
The correct answer is both. International Development Solutions formerly known as Black water. And you know Romney would too.... he "loves" the private sector.
Sorry violates my oath I took against supporting crimes against humanity.
Don't you read the truth?
Defense Spending to be 60% federal discretionary spending
The Obama administration awarded Academi a $250 million contract to work for the U.S. State Department and the Central Intelligence Agency in Afghanistan. Obama hires Blackwater, again State Dept. becomes the latest Obama agency to hire the notorious firm, this time for part of $10 billion contract - The company won the contract under one of its many alternate names, “International Development Solutions.” The contract is to "protect embassies around the world."
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. ... for the sake of protecting our friends and allies, the United States will lead a mighty coalition of freedom-loving nations and disarm Saddam Hussein." George W Bush
Same thing
President Obama stated on January 24, 2012, "Let there be no doubt: America is determined to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, and I will take no options off the table to achieve that goal."
HR 4310 prepares for war with Iran. Sections 1221 and 1222.
Barack Obama kills 2 American citizens with drone strikes in a nation we're not at war with. Following a pro-war policy of pre-emptive war. His administration is currently being sued since no evidence has been presented about the crimes of the Americans killed nor the legal authority to do so.
"Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants.
This counting method may partly explain the official claims of extraordinarily low collateral deaths," the Times reports. I'll say! It's a "counting method" that various characters created by Joseph Heller could love, in that it removes the word "count" from the word "accountability." These drone strikes only kill militants because "militants," strictly defined, means "military-aged males who are killed by drone strikes." (Not that anyone is performing rigorous background checks on these piles of corpses.)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/30/obama-kill-list-drones-citizen-petition_n_1556816.html
NATO commander admits that "flickers" of Al Qaeda and Hezbollah terrorists among the Libyan rebels. This should officially classify them as "associated forces" under the NDAA of 2012. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtGe6zk52Cw
Does anyone remember when the government supported the Mujahideen and the Afghan Arabs in the Afghanistan...? Remember how terrible that turned out? It's the exact same thing as what happened in Libya. Our government with NATO supported them only because they were an opposition to Gaddafi, not necessarily because they were the good guys. These policies didn't work then and they aren't working now. The pro-war pro-regime change policies have horrendous side effects that put us in more danger. You can only piss off so many countries before you've pissed off the world.
The assault on the city of Sirte killed more people than Gaddafi did in Misrata. Sirte and Tripoli are virtually destroyed. Not a solution to the problem. People are without resources because they're cities are in shambles which creates disease and hunger. NATO was involved with Obama support and US surface to air missiles.
Iran WMD's and Obama - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXsHCPdFMEo
Citizen casualties from drone strikes are much higher than the rate of enemies they kill. Government lies calling all males of military age enemy combatants when drones strikes kill people in an area. If 500 innocent males of military age are killed, they call it 500 militants.
Bombs and sanctions are counter productive when they hurt civilians more than the tyrant.
The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is not a benevolent organization. NATO is not about the North Atlantic and it's not about our collective defense.
NATO is a cost-sharing organization that finances aggressive military action. By hiding behind the claim that the organization provides for 'common defense,' NATO allows us to wage wars of choice under the guise of international peacekeeping. The most recent example was the unconstitutional war in Libya where NATO, operating under a United Nations mandate to protect civilians, instead backed one side in a civil war and pursued a policy of regime change.
Today, NATO leaders are meeting in Chicago to discuss the future of Afghanistan. The talks are being billed as discussions of plans to end the war. The war in Afghanistan is not ending. These talks are simply about financing the next phase of the war.
The Strategic Partnership Agreement between the U.S. and Afghanistan commits us to the country for at least another decade, despite public support for the war being at an all-time low. The United States will pay for half of the estimated $4.1 billion per year cost of supporting 352,000 Afghan army and police officers. Afghanistan's contribution will be $500,000. The rest will be financed by our 'NATO partners.' It is not surprising that support for the war among NATO members is waning, with France threatening to pull out its troops by the end of this year.
Our participation in NATO comes at a great financial cost to the U.S. We contribute the majority of funds for NATO's common budget, including 25% of the military budget. Between fiscal years 2010 and 2012 alone, we contributed more than $1.3 billion to NATO's military budget. We also incur significant costs through the deployment of our forces in support of NATO missions. According to The Atlantic, the war in Libya cost the United States $1.1 billion.
NATO was originally founded to provide a strategic counterbalance to the Soviet Union. Its founding purpose no longer exists, but NATO continues to circumvent the authority of the United Nations and to provoke other nations. NATO is an anachronism. Instead of trying to bolster the organization, we should begin serious discussions to dismantle it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-dennis-kucinich/nato-talks-a-sham-war-in_b_1533828.html
The Republican Party has become a monstrosity but don't get blinded by this truth
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-dennis-kucinich/nato-talks-a-sham-war-in_b_1533828.html
We need to build our nation! END the Wars! Now!
So all this is suppose to convince me that's it's OK to do nothing and allow the election of Republicans? You have to be blind not to be able to tell the difference. None of the things you list has Romney said he would be any better and in most cases much worse, he has said it is too soon to end the Iraq War for instance either Obama or Romney that's it! The sun will come up and one of those two will be appointing Supreme Court Judges, things are getting real time to quit wishing and start doing.
Here's alink to a long story in the Guardian about this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/09/did-republicans-deliberately-crash-us-economy
No it's supposed to let you know when you vote for the corporate backed candidates that the media boasts while not covering others, you're going to get both parties working for war and the 1%.
It's obvious throughout history.
Repubs suck, but democrats need to pay fucking attention in the primaries. Obama was nowhere near the best option in the 2008 primaries. 2 words should have been the warning sign "Patriot Act." Being backed by the bailout banks should have been another.
Vote how you want, but don't be blinded by talking points. Obama and Bush are warmonger presidents. Romney would be as well.
some of us were talking about unions before it was the cause of the day....would post something new, but this says it all....
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Examples I would prefer not to hold public office, I can read about them in a book if I need to, thank you for stopping by.
Yes, The evil Republicans have to try and balance out the evil Democrats. The bottom line is both parties are full of crooks.
As is the human race, I hope that you will get out your mircoscope and look for a difference this Nov., I think this one might really count.
We seem to be stuck with the same crappy choices year after year. Pick the lesser of two evils. I would vote for an Independent Candidate in a heart beat just to send a message to both Republican and Democrat Parties.
I address this here:
But here’s the deal no matter how bad the dems are they’re ten times better than the GOP and the fact is somebody is going to win every election and then that person is going to influence public policy,. I voted for Anderson in 1980, in part because I felt we needed a third way, and in so doing voted against one of the most moral Presidents we have ever had, because I fell into that “they’re all the same” trap. (Look at his post-presidency) When my son was getting his political science degree we spent a good deal of time looking at docs and papers to see how a third party could come into play, and the thing is, without a convention I just don’t see how you do it, and I wouldn’t trust that; even if they let me in the room, I don’t trust myself enough for that let alone them. I urge everyone to get out their microscopes and find a difference because I think this election matters. If I’m a fool for believing in democracy, I can think of worst things to be a fool for.
This is the thread:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/some-call-me-a-fool-for-thinking-that-supporters-o/
You are WRONG about the Dems being better then the Reps. Simple bias on your part. They are equally bad and can't even work together to screw the people. I guess we should be thankful for that anyway.
I watched CSPAN for many years, watching each bill and how the sides voted, I'm OK with my choice.
Both parties have their faults just in different areas. I'm not ok with either of them.
then you will have a diffulcut time affecting public policy, at some point you have to hold your nose and pick a side, then keep trying to push your pick in your direction IMHO
I think that maybe you should take a look at this article, for information about how much more effectively the GOP is using our democracy to its advantage than you are with this post.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830
I'm a Republican but I don't approve of any of that. The way to combat the GOP's (successful) attempts to disenfranchise its political enemies would be to participate in the democratic process, to make our government more responsive to your concerns. The Tea Party proved that it's possible. Occupy seems to be proving that they're incapable.
Wow you mean the entire Republican Party is more effective than my little old post? Damn! I did not expect that.
Still seems to me that the Koch bros TEA party held tight to the “cut taxes for rich people” line.
Please just read the article.
My apologies sir, I get caught in the fight; sometimes, it’s like a bar fight in here. This is a very good article, and I encourage anyone wishing to inform themselves on voter’s rights to read it.
You are right. ONE PARTY RULE! The promised land awaits!
Who's saying anything about one party, I think we need the dems AND a labor party.
Good idea! Well shooz, epa etc... What about it?
What's to argue with?
The (R)epelican'ts are done!!!!
Overdone in fact, just a precursory overview of their current "debates", should be enough to convince any American.
there's old shooz again. You may have to eat your words if the republicans take the senate, house ( they hold it now), and the executive office.
Well, in that case I hope it's your children cleaning toilets for the rich kids.
that's your vision of the future you old commie, not mine.
That's not my vision, that's the (R)epelican't vision and by proxy, your vision.
Amazing that that you are that blind.
But then, what else can be expected of a fascist.
Listen to you. Marxist filth calling someone fascist. If the republicans win maybe all you ignorant Obama butt boys should leave the country. In fact, on the behalf of liberty loving Americans please do just that.
Forward into the past of the Bush glory years, eh?
Have fun with that.
You really can't have an intelligent conversation can you? Oh wait, communists don't bother with that. They just execute people.
do you mean like how U.S-born cleric Anwar al-Awlaki and Samir Khan were killed by the united states government without due process of law? just trying to understand your position a little better, ya know.
Actually I agree with you on that.
now, now, calm down, you are in the denial stage of grief. It's going to be ok. Your dream of a communist U.S.A. isn't going to happen, but you still will be able to survive in the greatest country on earth.
More assumptions from a fascist?
I guess that's all you have is assumptions.
oh, you've moved into the anger phase of denial. Hang on it'll be over soon.
So you pile on yet another assumption?
What is your purpose in American politics?
to defeat fools like you.
At least you finally admit to being a fascist.
In love with corporatocracy, like all good little fascists.
Fascism is not Coporatism in the modern sense. And I would rather be a fascist than a filthy Marxist. You scum are the enemy of everything decent in mankind.
Nice to know you admit that.
Fascist..................You wear it well.
BTW I'm not a Marxist, nor was I ever.
You Nazi's assume quite a lot.
you may be moving into the depression stage of grief. Or you are just totally nuts.
It's strung out on it's "wife's" welfare paid for drugs and has no clue when to shut it's commie mouth.
I'll be too busy running away from the monkeys flying out of my butt to eat any words.
Hey BlackSun since you know your way around the block, here's the deal. We have to make the Republican party so weak that, the dude from VT can talk enough dems over to start a real labor party. As long as these guys who have never accepted democracy and are still trying to bring the King back (Republicans) are at the table we can't get anything done.
But aren't two left wing parties just one party rule? I realize that many OWS want just that but those of us with all synapses firing know what a disaster that would be.
You and I disagree on how "left" the dems really are, but that's not my point. My point is that the R's only know one song, cut taxes on rich people, it's like seing a doctor when you got a bit of fever, he gets you down to 92 degrees and just wants to keep going lower, you got to get out of there before he kills you.
Seems to me that conservatives are like an anchor to the future growth of society. Is this a bad thing? Not sure. Might be a good thing to have an anchor once in a while to slow down liberal fever.
I consider myself very liberal so don't think I am putting liberals down but they do get a bit carried away at times.
What we need is a Tao Party. One that is finding that magical zone of balancing a diverse society.
If you don't know what Tao means then look it up.
I like your thoughts on balance I have some medical knowlege and know how important balance is to good health. I believe that the tax structure does effect how in balance our socity is, I believe there is a possibility of a balanced system. The point of my post is that Republicans always want to move in one direction and that causes unbalance, when something no longer sevres the body, or the soul, or balance of public policy, we must release it and remove it from us, I believe the Republican party has reached that point.
I think both parties have reached this point. I look to the politicians that speak against their own party for inspiration in policy.
Now me I like that guy up in Vermont, he gets about as close as anyboby I've seen, but if I was walking past him on the sidewalk he'd be brushin up against my right shoulder. I want to have serious discussions about how to solve our problems, but I do believe every elected Republican is a roadblock to progress. It's not that anybody's perfect it's just that they have gone so far, that if we don't stop this illision that they bring "balance" we may really lose this country.
that sounds like Hugo Chavez talking about his opposition. I'm conservative but respect other parties, for you to wish to get rid of a whole political party because you don't agree with them sounds like you'd like some authoritarian dictator to be in control. it ain't going to happen in the U.S. buddy, people like you will end up disappointed.
Forget left/right, dem/rep paradiagm. We have bigger dragons to slay. Ask yourself this; if both republicans and democrats both want better education, lower taxes, free speech, equality, better infrastructure, more jobs, etc., how come we have none of that? Left and right were put there by the ruling elite to keep us bickering and thinking we have choices. Its a big scam. We've been played! It keeps us busy while the banksters take our money and laugh all the way to the bank...and my suspicion is that factsrfun knows it.
Renaye, I don’t agree at all that they are both here to do all those things, so your premise is wrong. You should read more of my posts before you question my motives. What I do believe is that the GOP’s long term plan is to fully restore monarchy and the dems are trying to stop them.
theocracy
I wouldn’t disagree; I chose “monarchy” due to the way they protect inherited wealth and power. Jon Steward called it a “wealth incumbency”. I believe if you took everyone born with a trust fund, or had one by their 18th birthday and everyone else, placed them in two groups and examined them one could learn a lot about what John Edwards called “two Americas”. I think that religion is a tool for them, those in real control, but the thought of a true believer with their finger on the button should wake everyone up.
I believe we are tracking. Ari Berman has a column out (Salon etc) that documents how few people have the rest of us by the you know whats.
At a time when it’s become a cliché to say that Occupy Wall Street has changed the nation’s political conversation — drawing long overdue attention to the struggles of the 99 percent — electoral politics and the 2012 presidential election have become almost exclusively defined by the 1 percent. Or, to be more precise, the .0000063 percent. Those are the 196 individual donors who have provided nearly 80 percent of the money raised by super PACs in 2011 by giving $100,000 or more each.
The fact that they own the politicians shouldn't blind us to the other people they also own, who control us in other ways. (corporations, media, churches, universities, etc.) One way isn't enough, apparently.
I know you've read this, in case anyone is following:
http://www.thenation.com/article/166309/0000063-percent-election
Thank you, I started talking about the 99%, or I actually focused on the 80% and the power of runaway wealth in the 1980's. I have for many decades been shocked that more people weren't talking about the very dangerous trends we were on. I earned my living running a nuclear power plant and paying attention to trends was not optional there. What was happening seemed very obvious to me, to hear people talk about these issues at all, then to be accused of class warfare and still keep talking. Gives me more cause for hope than I have had in a long time.
This movement is getting inserted in almost every discussion regarding the economy, politics, governance, jobs, business, education, investment, etc. and more and more of it is on the issues, rather than camping in parks and ugly confrontations, and I think that is good. Almost no one can ignore the real problems we have and it is OK to have different ideas of how to solve them. IMHO.
hey i know IMHO is the polite way here, I want you fried up I think you got game
Absolutely, take this forum for instance, it is good to have posts of action events, but for me a forum is a place to exchange and hone ideas, I really believe if we can circulate enough ideas and ways of explaining the world as it is, the truth will float to the top so to speak. Clinton always said he believed in the American people, that they almost always got it right. It’s the real belief in democracy, that if people are informed they tend to do the right thing. I think that truth can be found in detailed examining of budgets, policies ect. But it can also be found in simple language, the right has gotten so good at this, what I call “bummer sticker policy” that I think the left is somewhat mistrustful of the style. I believe that simple plain language can be true and speak to the heart. People have told me throughout my life that I am “special”. I come here to hone the talking points that will change the world. I’ll do it by myself if I have to, but I will take any help I can get.
I concur with all you say. There is a field about framing, which the right uses effectively. I have contacted one of the experts in the past who is semi interested philosophically but semi disinterested in helping, so I gave up on him.
Thanks for adding to the thread.
Lakoff is the guy. If you read this I think you will see why I didn't get anywhere with him.
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml
Thanks for the,link through out those decades, the people I worked with, read all the think tank talking points, brought them to me and I distroyed them, sometimes I had to think about it for a day. There are people who walk the earth, who are different, some are very tall and play basketball, I do something else.
You are soooooooooooo wrong. I'm short on time today, but if you search "republican democrat paradiagm deception" you will find much information that describes exactly what I have written above.
Are you daft?
The Republicon Cult exists to serve the 1% and sabotage any effort by Dems to serve the 99%.
Just because Cons get the 1% funding to be largely successful does not mean Dems are equally evil. What kind of logic is that?
That's like saying the Nazis and the Jews were equally responsible for WW-2.
Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
Image and Vote! Image and Vote! "We the 1%" NOT What They Wrote!!
OK wait a minuite I really do want to understand, are saying that both parties are actually fighting for "better education" ect.? or are you saying that the Republicans aren't trying to restore monarchy? I'm not saying that the two aren't too close, I'm just saying I can still tell the difference.
They both say what they're told to say. The monarchy is already in charge. We've been played. Its all fake. There is only an illusion of difference to keep the people bickering.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/queen.htm
Fighting the government, trying to fix the bill of rights or the constitution is a waste of time. We have to fight the source...go right to the tippy top of the chain and expose the true rulers of this world. The "ruling globalist elites". The .01%. Think of our government as middle-management....pawns, and you'll be in the right mindset to start fighting and exposing the REAL criminals.
Excuse me for butting into this conversation, but you do know you are talking about the Illuminati, right? Let's just call a spade a spade. CFR, Trilateral commision, Bilderberg group, etc., etc, etc. About 400 to 1000 people own and control the world and the direction it is headed in. So how are you going to stop/change it? Even if you could round them all up and stamp them all out, they would just reappear somewhere else in a relatively short period of time. They are insidious, determined, and completely in love with power. Money is actually a secondary consideration for them; a means to an end. And that end is absolute total control and tyranny over the entire planet.
I have no doubt whatsoever that if we could ever develop advanced space travel (e.g. "Star Trek") that these conquer maniacs would move right out into the galaxy and try to own it too, because they are completely psychopathic and completely dangerous on an epic scale.
There is a reason why the world is the way it is. It really could be something completely different. When you start asking hard questions and begin to uncover and understand the true nature of things and why we are in the mess we are in, then what needs to be done becomes obvious.
But doing it, well, that's another matter.
They own one politcal party outright already,l and they're kicking the tires on the other big one.
ok you got game, wish you didn't lead with the bigo "sooo wrong" your the one that is reading "the R's are done" as a ringing endorsement of the dems, but I'd rather chat than fight, so though I understand and am aware of much of your concerns I still do think that we can't aford not to use our microscopes to find a difference and vote so that we can have people in office that will require a little less beating over the head to do the right thing.
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as relevant today as it was then....
YOU think republicans time has passed. YOU are SOOOoooo funny. Have you read even ONE news paper about the collapse of liberalism issues in Europe and Greece??????? My God,,, liberals have destroyed Europe. You are a prime example of liberalism failures in America. All YOU know how to do is WHINE about everything. A liberal whiner. (no joke)
Thank you for that feedback, however I still contend that having lowered the top tax to an unsustainable low level the Republicans have done as much damage as they can, and they should go. As you are well aware the strongest European economy is the Germans, one of the most heavily unionized work forces in the world. Of course France and England are doing their parts all with large union work forces. They take care of their sick as well. If you had any knowledge at all about what is happening in Greece you would know that it was the bankers and their capitalist system that got them in trouble. Are you this ignorant or are you just trying to mislead.
I have yet another comment for you. The stock market is starting to show strength. You,,, and OWS,,, hates Wall Street. You would probably also say Wall Street is controlled by republicans. And yet,,, the poor keep getting poorer under liberal agenda's. You dont seem to see what is actually happening. Your tax plan idea does not hold water.
Stock market showing strenght is no surprise:
Forum Post: DJIA: Reagan +238%, Clinton +325%, Bush -22%, Obama +154% (3years)
Posted 3 weeks ago on Jan. 27, 2012, 8:09 a.m. EST by factsrfun (538) | edit | delete This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Here’s the dates, numbers used, 01/23/1981 (940), 1/20/1989 (2235), 01/23/1993 (3257), 01/19/2001 (10587), 01/23/2009 (8281), 01/26/2012 (12735), no coment just wanted to introduce some facts.
here's the link; http://occupywallst.org/forum/djia-reagan-238-clinton-325-bush-22-obama-154-3yea/
The only plan I have is git rid of all Republicans before they kill us, like a doctor that won't stop lowering your tempature no matter how low it gets.
Your numbers are far from being correct. You are posting lies. First, within 7 months of becoming president, America was attacked by terrorist that Clinton allowed to learn to fly planes into buildings. The entire economy stopped and Wall Street closed for several days,, unlike any other time in history. Second, you need to see what the market was doing under Bush. 16,000 under Bush and obama has 12,900. Third, democrats took control of congress during Bush's last term,,,,, stocks started going down. Republicans took control of the House under obama,,,, stock going up.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EDJI+Interactive#symbol=^dji;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
If you believe what you say you will show it to me, lair.
yeah s**t happens, Where's the lie?
You are such a water carrier for the left. How many times have you been called a useful idiot on here? I don't care for that term, but it's so true with so many of you fools on here. BOTH SIDES are corrupt. Stop picking on one side.
But here’s the deal no matter how bad the dems are they’re ten times better than the GOP and the fact is somebody is going to win every election and then that person is going to influence public policy,. I voted for Anderson in 1980, in part because I felt that way, and in so doing voted against one of the most moral Presidents we have ever had, because I fell into that “they’re all the same” trap. (Look at his post-presidency) When my son was getting his political science degree we spent a good deal of time looking at docs and papers to see how a third party could come into play, and the thing is, without a convention I just don’t see how you do it, and I wouldn’t trust that; even if they let me in the room, I don’t trust myself enough for that let alone them. I urge everyone to get out their microscopes and find a difference because I think this election matters. If I’m a fool for believing in democracy, I can think of worst things to be a fool for.
your simplistic view of the republican party is laughable and incorrect. Oh and top tax rates were never 90% in 1950's. Quit relaying on the WH talking points to write your blog.
I see we have another lair; do I really need to prove this?
http://ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html
1952-53 22.2 4,000 5 92 400,000
I wish this was a WH talking point, they should be so smart. I don't mean to be simplistic at all just to say that Republicans are, I invite all Republicans willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to join us.
you fell into that trap. There were so many tax loop holes then no one paid that top rate, no one.
Yeah that trap of telling the truth, I never claimed anyone's "effective tax rate" was 90% just that the rate was. Tell you what let's raise the rate back to 90% and see how much they can squeze through the loopholes. You up for that?
it's not going to happen, because the U.S. is center right country. you live in a liberal bubble, you are from vermont, hasn't that been invaded by all of those liberal New Yorkers? and you've got old Sanders as a senator a good old communist
whither or not it's going to happen just asking you to join up with me and fight for it come on I know you want to be on the good side
i support your right to free speech and political ideas, but i think that you are on the wrong side. I don't want to end up like Greece or other loser European countries.
and I don't want to end up like Mexico or Rome
you will if you follow the Obama way.
I'm pretty sure they have even less regulations, environmental, workers rights; in Mexico, that would be the GOP way.
http://www.stanford.edu/class/polisci120a/immigration/Federal%20Tax%20Brackets.pdf Top rate for the 50's = 84% Top Rate for the 60's = 91%
I saw this site too, almost used it, but it is "married" rates the one I used above is the top single rate. Thanks for stopping by, please don't think I'm trying to pick a fight or anything.
No worries. Thanks for the correction!
not at all, it is a good site,
the loop holes that existed in the 50's and 60's don't exist now. A lot of wealth is investment wealth taxed at a different rate anyway than income. This isn't Europe with its shrinking economies and riots in the streets' we don't want to tax everyone to death like France so that the government can take the money and redistribute it. It won't work never has. Factsrfun wants an American consisting of losers hanging out a cafe shops in Che t-shirts on government dole, not a country of hard workers who strive for success and wealth.
Please resist falling into "the trap" of "party politics".
The more intelligent approach is to be specific about the issues that you seek to change, and about the specific people and their individual policies that you find conflict with. To divide people into two groups, such as what we have with the two-party system now, is to participate in the same stereotype-building that exists with racism. "Racism" is about putting an individual into a group and basing a perspective on assumptions. You are therefore encouraging the divisiveness that goes along with viewing everyone as falling into only one group or the other.
As citizens we get to vote, if you don't pick a side you are not in the game, I learned that in 1980 when I voted for Anderson.
You should be proud for voting for someone you truly believed in, regardless of what the mainstream media presented to you.
I offer you this quote:
“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.” -- John Quincy Adams, 6th President of the United States.
If only more people followed their heart, mind, and principles. Instead, the masses follow the talking heads on television. Who do you think gives the news anchors their agenda of what to report on, and how to report it?
Nobel thoughts don't undo what Reagan did, nor what Bush did for those who voted Nader, even the Peaceful Warrior is in the end a warrior. I try to get the best dem I can then do what I can to get them elected. I don't want to go all school marm on you because you seem sincere and I respect that, but the constition sort sticks us with two parties, I really tried to look for a way out when my son was getting his polysic degree, you know workin through the parpers and such. Best read I can make we're pretty much stuck without a convention, and that would be the last thing I would support, even if they let me in the room. I don't even trust myself that much let alone them.
It's my party and I'll cry if I want to? I agree one Vote, one Party. Let's call it Porkie's.
Also, I don't see any reason in the world why the rich should pay more than then poor; if anything we extract more of government than they do.
And it makes no sense to cry that they are extracting all the wealth, this isn't monarchy - you have exactly the same opportunity.
Cool, I'll take the super rich parents then, humm where do I sign up?
still a very good question
Their purpose is to keep you puke holes from suckseeding. Get it moron?
Let's see how that works out for'em
True, no democrats are corrupt, nor do any democrats vote against the wishes of the people. I mean, I know everyone was for the bailouts, NDAA 2012, and the new Predator Drones!
Therefore, repulipuds should be viewed in bullseye terms only.
Democracy is the new communism. Embrace it and love it.
Satire! How refreshing, I looked back over my post to be sure but no I never said anything about the dems. But here’s the deal no matter how bad the dems are their ten times better than the GOP and the fact is somebody is going to win every election and then that person is going to influence public policy, If you want to do something besides camp in a park you better make sure that person is as good as they can be. It's a lot easrer to get a dem to do the right thing. (I save “perfect” for my “perfect” child)
You finished whining? We won the congress in a historical record setting fashion...come November, we'll toss the cowardly president out as well.
So much for your ignorant post
Why don't you check with Bin Ladden about how "cowardly" he is, oh wait it's too late isn't it?
You are losing independents because right wing ideology has now gone so far to the fringe and is tied to religious fundamentalist dogma. The crazies are running your conversation and no one wants an american christian form of the taliban invading our private lives.
Don't fall for the party bait. The guy you're replying to will form an opinion simply to contradict yours. He has no sincere position. You say red he says blue and so on. He is a troll that is here to do nothing more than disrupt normal conversation.
Im not falling for bait, im venting.... I am disgusted and fed up with the republican politicians who think they have the right to force their religious ideology on the masses and their dogmatic followers. They cannot even recognize the difference between fiscal conservative and social conservative and so are buying the whole package. But thanks for your concern!
Obama,Demoncraps,and Unions. All linked in and part of the same money laundering cabal. Public sector Unions should be outlawed,their leaders should be jailed,they are stealing from taxpayers while funding Demoncraps.
For that matter why should anybody get paid? If the damn job creators would stick to their guns people would work for food.
omg you are a nut case. Sorry i thought that i was debating with someone ,well, not nuts.
Just in case you want to be serious, you tell me under say a Ron Paul world, if I can get the job done for a piece of bread, why should I give somebody money? If Ron Paul were President he would have no problem with that would he?
Put another way, "These damn people would work for $6/hr if the damn democrates didn't keep raiseing the minumen wage.
Hey I'm just taking in terms you understand, granted my ideas are not quite as wild as yours.
what the dems and unions are doing is peanuts compared to what corporate america is getting away with.