Forum Post: Direct Democracy v. Delusional Democracy
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 8, 2011, 5:47 p.m. EST by aquainted
(268)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Direct Democracy means people vote whenever they want to, on issues they decide to vote on, and the government must carryout the will of the people or get a pink slip in the next round of voting. In Direct Democracy People like voting cause they know it will fix the problem. It is fun to see how your neighbors and friends have voted since everyone's vote is public. All the information they need to make good votes is on the internet because, last month, the People voted for all the information to be put on the internet so they could vote better and easier. Yup, Direct Democracy just keeps getting easier and easier.
Then there is Delusional Democracy. This occurs when a country goes completely insane and just keeps doing the same stupid thing over and over hoping for a better result. They believe they have power when they are being laughed at all the way to the bank. Every four years they are tricked again into voting for another stooge with a silver tongue. Every four years there are another hundred problems to fix, and every four years they are deeper in debt than they ever dreamed possible.
Take your pick.
"Take your pick" is saying these are the only two possible or at least the only two legitimate choices. The representative democracy as ours has evolved is not inevitable. Direct democracy with everyone voting on every decision is just as delusion and unworkable as the example you chose. Both can be modified to work better. Direct democracy can be just as delusional, so loading up one choice with a pejorative title is unfair and would be corrosive of either system.
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False alternatives.
meaning?
I propose that all productive institutions be run in a directly democratic fashion. Then we can produce, distribute, and allocate resources with a mechanism that guarantees other values make it to the decision making process, instead of what we have now, where the only value is to maximize profit.
In face, perhaps we can go further and say that all persons should have say in decisions to the proportion that they are affected by those decisions. That is, all areas of life operate by consensus, except those which we consent need no general consenus (like for example, what time I would like to go to sleep tonight, or what kind of cereal I want to have for breakfast, etc.)
why does the vote have to be public?
People need to verify the vote. The only way to really, positively verify the vote is to make it public and let everyone see that. There is no serious reason to have secret ballots, except to provide a means to defraud the elections, if necessary.
I agree. I've always suspected having a secret ballot was for manipulation. No one I've ever met has had a problem telling friends or neighbors who they plan on voting for, yet when you go to the booth, all of a sudden the rest of the process is in secret. I was in a union years ago and saw just how that manipulation worked. All you did was check 'I accept' or 'I reject' the contract proposal, no name on your slip of paper, yet they would go in a back room to count them instead of right there in front of the members. The result? Each contract we gave away more and more. Hmmm.
Damn good example,if we can't check it and re check it, then somebody is hiding something.
Shortly after that I quit the union. It was so obvious, to me at least. You checked one or the other, folded your little slip of unsigned paper and put it in a ballot box. There was a chalkboard at the front of the union hall so all they had to do was open the box and start tallying the results, but instead, took it in a back room THREE DIFFERENT TIMES before they told us the results. That's one reason I distrust the present voting system in general and the Electoral College specifically.
Yeah, what the hell is that crazy college all about?
I read a story explaining it in the newspaper years ago, and it was confusing, to say the least. Deliberately so i bet. It varies by state but here in Missouri when you go to the voting booth, you aren't actually voting for the President, you're voting for a group of electors that are pledged to that candidate. Then the electors cast their votes for pres. and vice-pres. There's more to it, but the way I see it, it's like taking that union ballot box into the CLOSET of that back room to count the votes, one extra layer of secrecy to the whole thing.
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what about voter intimidation? If you can check your neighbors vote, then you can threaten them to vote in a certain way. Or what about employers letting you go because you didn't vote in a way that pleased them? Or hell, the police themselves, what if you vote for a politician or a measure that takes away there power, you want them harassing you every time you step outside?
Voter intimidation is assault and you go jail. Anyone who messes with the public vote goes to prison. Anyone who interferes with free speech and assembly goes to jail including cops.
This is America and we don't put up with that shit.
Its a crime only if its reported. unions have used this kind of thuggery for decades and they were rarely if ever convicted of it, because they threatened people's families. Its not all rosey like you think.
You Union people got some good stories. Somebody is always messin with the working man in this country. When I was in construction the old boys pulled knives on me to keep me in line. Its a tough world and we just got to be smarter and tougher.
Acquainted you are delusional. you think because your little group has decided some issues that are so small and unimportant that it is a great achievement? Then you have everyone is like minded pretty much who supports this. Not really a diverse segment of America. Lastly open reporting of people's votes will always lead to voter intimidation. Another Union tactic that was tried with the card check so they could threaten people ahead of their votes. You are so delusional and you don't even know it.
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