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Forum Post: Did You Vote For Obama 2008?

Posted 1 year ago on April 30, 2012, 6:18 a.m. EST by toonces (-117)
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Will you vote for Obama 2012?

186 Comments

186 Comments


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[-] 5 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Did You Vote For Obama 2008? - YES and even donated to his campaign (a first for me)

Will you vote for Obama 2012? - NO

[-] 7 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Here are the reasons:

I have become very disenchanted with President Barack Obama even though I voted for him in 2008.

  1. He did not even propose the public option healthcare system: he had campaigned on that system, promising to propose it. (Wikipedia: ”President Barack Obama promoted the idea of the public option while running for election. After becoming President, Obama downplayed the need for a public health insurance option including calling it a “sliver” of health care reform,[4] but had not given up pursuing the idea before the health care reform was passed.[5] The preceding statement is disputed by evidence that the Obama administration had agreed to drop the public option from the final plan in the summer of 2009[6] in a back room deal with representatives of the for-profit hospital lobby[7]“)

  2. He has appointed countless Wall Streeters to his top economic team, failing to appoint labor voices like Robert Reich.

  3. He has bailed out Wall Street instead of Main Street: remember TARP? And then the banks dispensed $6 billion in bonuses in that year to its executives.

  4. He failed to attack the mortgage crisis, leaving an elephant still in our “room”, with one-third of home mortgages now underwater.

  5. He failed to veto the National Defense Authorization Act, doing away with habeous corpus, allowing the government to arrest and detain indefinitely without a trial or hearing.

  6. He agreed to an extension of the Bush tax cuts for the rich, and on top of that, he agreed to an egregious reduction of the estate taxes on the rich, exempting as much as $10 million from any estate taxes and lowering the estate tax rate down to a ridiculous rate of 35%, when our country has a $15 trillion debt. That alone saved the Walton heirs $17 billion in taxes.

  7. He has failed to indict and imprison any of those banksters involved in all of that fraud on Wall Street from the subprime mortgage, including robo-signing, and selling shit-backed mortgage securities known to be worthless.

  8. He appointed Jeffrey Immelt to head his Jobs Council when GE has been saying “China, China, China,” and shipping all jobs overseas while closing plants here in the US.

  9. President Obama is now considering and proposing to lower the corporate tax rate to 26%, when corporations are not only at a low-time rate of paying taxes but getting billions in tax subsidies from our government and opening up offices on the 19th floor of one building on the Cayman Islands to avoid taxes altogether.

  10. President Obama spoke in favor of PIPA and SOPA, when the internet is the last vestige of free speech and the availability of free information to the general public.

  11. There were no indictments by President Obama of all the contractor fraud reported on by Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul in a Congressional Report released over a year ago. Whenever the rich and big corporations are caught in fraud, Eric Holder adopts a policy of “looking forward”, instead of holding them accountable.

  12. President Obama agreed to the “grand bargain” (thank, God, Boehner did not accept it) to cut over $2 trillion in spending, including social security, medicare, medicaid, and other social safety-net programs merely in return for hypothetical “revenue increases” of $800 billion relying on “dynamic scoring”.

  13. President Obama has done nothing to level the trade treaties, where corporations are shipping labor to Cambodia (22.5 cents per hour), China, Philippines, etc., where labor is paid 25 cents per hour. This is exporting slavery to other countries. Where is the level playing field for Americans?

  14. President Obama in 2009 only proposed $140 billion in infrastructure spending when Paul Krugman and other economists predicted that $1.5 trillion was needed for our economy to recover. And last year only proposed a paltry $108 billion in infrastructure spending.

  15. President Obama praised the recent JOBS Act, which allows corporations to go public and raise capital without audited financial information in their public presentations for the first five years, allowing them to present fictitious numbers and defraud investors?

  16. President Obama has failed to propose the return of Glass-Steagall, separating commercial and investment banking, which will soon plunge us back into another mega-bailout of Wall Street.

  17. President Obama has failed to propose the break up of the big banks and corporations. What ever happened to the Sherman Anti-Trust Act?

  18. President Obama touted a $25 billion robo-signing settlement when a trillion dollars of our pension and retirement funds were stolen.

  19. While campaigning, President Obama promised to put on his walking shoes for labor, but failed to even show up in Wisconsin and walk the picket line against Governor Walker.

  20. President Obama has not declared war on the Supreme Court, as President Roosevelt did, to oppose the corporate/rich posture of Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, Alito, and Roberts. Why not take them on?

  21. President Obama has arrested and raided more marijuana users in less than four years than George Bush did in eight years. Why is President Obama proposing cuts to social security, medicare, and medicaid while spending more on marijuana arrests and raids, especially when a majority of Americans are for legalization of pot and for the open sale of marijuana for medical use?

Time and time again President Obama did not fight the good fight for working Americans, who are losing their jobs, health insurance, homes, dignity, etc. I am tired of the lame excuse of how we must vote for Obama because of the Supreme Court. How can anyone believe that Obama would not disappoint progressives on that issue after he failed to undertake a recess appointment of Elizabeth Warren to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, a position to which she was more entitled to direct than any other American?

I am done with President Obama.

http://my.firedoglake.com/barefootaccountant/2012/04/25/20-reasons-why-i-will-never-again-vote-for-obama/

These are not my words, but reflect exactly how I feel. Although I feel this way about Obama; I also feel the R's are 10X WORSE!

[-] 5 points by ronniepaul2012 (214) 1 year ago

well said

[-] 3 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Here's some more

Obama also appointed Monsanto's Michael Taylor to the FDA

Obama even reappointed Bush's Ben Benrnanke to the Federal Reserve

He has been sued by the ACLU several times for war crimes

"I'm not disgusted at President Obama personally. It's President Obama's policies on civil liberties and national security issues I'm disgusted by." - ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero

The Obama administration’s adoption of the stonewalling tactics and opaque policies of the Bush administration flies in the face of the president’s stated desire to restore the rule of law. ... when these (torture) photos do see the light of day, the outrage will focus not only on the commission of torture by the Bush administration but on the Obama administration's complicity in covering them up. - ACLU

He refused to sign an executive order banning discrimination based on sexual orientation.

He's bombed more countries than Bush.

Obama also turned his back on whistle blowers even though before his presidency he said they should be praised. Free Bradley Manning! All it takes is a pardon.

Obama also supported the patriot act, which essentially allows the federal government to delete the 4th amendment.

His administration has continually suppressed and refused to reveal information about the wars.

Goldman Sachs was his second largest backer in 2008, Obama accepted over 1 million dollars from them.

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

All of these reasons paint a picture that depicts where he's taking this country yet so many want to vote for the "lesser of two evils". They purposely give you no choice in order to perpetuate their agenda.

Since it's "against the rules" to speak of "conspiracies" on this form; I'll just post this quote:

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery." --Thomas Jefferson

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

War with Iran?

President Obama stated on January 24, 2012, `Let there be no doubt: America is determined to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, and I will take no options off the table to achieve that goal.'.

Sounds like Bush talking about Iraq's WMD's.... Sayin' the same thing. Just like Clinton said in '98 about Iraq. Regime change. He's not cooperating with inspectors... we will take military action if necessary. Then Bush comes in and takes military action. Sayin' the same thing.

Yeah, some folks inherit star spangled eyes

Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord

And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"

Oh, they only answer, more, more, more, yoh

It ain't me, it ain't me

I ain't no military son

It ain't me, it ain't me

I ain't no fortunate one

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

I always liked CCR and that song. I I also like this clip from J Browne:

Whatever you believe the necessary course to be

Depends on who you trust to identify the enemy

Who beats the drums for war?

Even before peace is lost

Who are the profits for?

And who are they who bear the cost

When a country takes the low road to war

Who gives the orders, orders to torture?

Who gets to no bid contract the future?

Who lies, then bombs, then calls it an error?

Who makes a fortune from fighting terror?

Who is the enemy trying to crush us?

Who is the enemy of truth and justice?

Who is the enemy of peace and freedom?

Where are the courts, now when we need them?

Why is impeachment not on the table?

We better stop them while we are able

Roll out the drums of war

Roll out the drums of war

If you know what your freedom,s for

Roll out the drums of war

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-QS6geyZVc

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

good lyrics

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I have a list exactly like this. But I think my list goes to 30.

[-] 2 points by craigdangit (326) 1 year ago

I'd like to add a few,

  1. expanded the Bush wiretapping program by executive order.

  2. Guantanamo is still open.

The few things he did to placate us were just head-pats for naive pacifists. He's just as much of a war-mongering fascist as Bush, he just hides it a tiny amount. If you think he's acting like a Republican now, wait till his second term

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

lulz "This is my last election. After my election, I'll have more flexibility."

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

Acting republican is a horrible criminal reality we must abhor andcall out. The only to stop it is to stop the horrible lurch to the right that has occured the last 3 decades! Pressure the Dems to have a backbone. They can be made to serve the 99%. Repubs are clearly too far gone. Support OWS. Vote out big corp lovin politicians.

[-] 1 points by craigdangit (326) 1 year ago

"Vote out big corp lovin politicians."

See also: All of them.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

More repubs than Dems

[-] -1 points by craigdangit (326) 1 year ago

That's right, there are slightly more Republicans in the House at the moment, so they have a number majority currently.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

Its more numbers. The repubs have the wrong agenda.

[-] 0 points by craigdangit (326) 1 year ago

They both have the same agenda: More money to the rich.

Some people can't see it.

[-] 1 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

One party supports the buffett rule, the other will cut taxes for the 1%, One party signed the norquist pledge, the other hasn't. One party supports the citizens united decision the other doesn't. One denies climate change and is anti alternative energy. The other is not. One party is anti union, the other not. One is anti gay, the other not. The parties are vastly different! vote your interests. Do not throw your vote away! do not vote the interests of the 1% Support OWS. Vote out pro 1% politicians

[-] 1 points by craigdangit (326) 1 year ago

So, you've never heard of the concept of "lip service". There is time yet, and a lot of readable information online if you'd like to do some research.

one of the parties SAYS they support the buffet rule. Give them a chance to pass it, and watch what they do. "Oops, one of our key senators broke his leg and couldn't get here to vote"...

If you can't see the fact that both parties work for the 1% than I cannot express the sorrow I have for you.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

These presidents and legislators are just actors playing their part for our entertainment. Same with the D's & R's BS. It keeps us divided. They like it that way ............ while they suck every last $ out of this country. Here's a quote that addresses your point -

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery."

~Thomas Jefferson~

IMO - our distinguished period = assassination of jfk

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

The suprem court ruled

that citizens could not be forced to give private companies

as the federal health insurance law implies.

.

I support this supreme court decision.

,

I'd rather give my money to a transparent government

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Did the SCOTUS rule on the case or did they just hear the argument? To my understanding, they haven't made a ruling yet, but I have taken a break from the news lately.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

oh .

I'm have a hard time trying to find the exact wording of the ruling

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

When did the Supreme Court decide this? I thought a decision on the Health care law wasn't due until June?

I have heard of no such decision.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

grr

Washington (CNN) -- In one of the most anticipated Supreme Court hearings in years, the justices on Tuesday offered sharply divided views on the controversial individual mandate provision at the heart of the 2010 federal health care reform law.

The fate of the individual mandate -- requiring most Americans to purchase health insurance by 2014 or face a financial penalty -- may be in jeopardy, and perhaps with it the entire law's other 450 or so sections, based on tough questions of the government by the court's conservative majority.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/27/justice/scotus-health-care/index.html

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

That was not a decision. That was merely the initial hearing of arguments. No decision has been rendered. The ruling is not expected until sometime in June.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

thanks

[-] -1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

By the way, I really hope, against all odds, that the mandate is upheld. Although my strong preference is the same as yours, a single payer option, That had NO chance of becoming law. I would rather make sure that 30 million people who currently are barred from having health insurance of any kind will finally get access. It is far from perfect, and far from universal, but it is better than the way is was before, and is something to build on.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

as I see it

having to buy private insurance is giving up power that should belong to the people

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

And today, without that, what alternative do you have in mind? On a practical level, not pie in the sky?

How long do you think whatever plan you have will take given the CURRENT realities, to be implemented? What do uninsured people do in the meantime, while that plan is in process of getting implemented?

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

it i not impossible to pass good law

on a practical level the government should provide healthcare

like firemen and police are provided

[-] 0 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

Reply to your post below.

Thank you. (Seriously.)

[-] -1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

It WAS impossible to pass universal, single payer healthcare now, given the current political realities. The republicans would never have allowed it. Even with this very conservative plan, Republicans were screaming "death panels" to get it defeated. The Tea PArty was formed mostly to oppose it and the midterm elections brought even more conservative republicans into congress as a result, specifically to defeat it.

Passing good laws are only possible when they are possible, not at any time you or I want them. The Affordable Care Act is, on the whole a good law. It is a deeply flawed one, but it make certain that tens of millions of people get health insurance who would not have access otherwise. Is it the BEST law? No, not even close. But given the REALITY of the times, it was the best law possible at the moment. And, as I said, it is something to build upon.

Until universal, single payer healthcare becomes law, do you propose that taking away access to health insurance for at least 30 million people is ethical?

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

current political is just a puppet show

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

The question remains.

Until universal, single payer healthcare becomes law, do you propose that taking away access to health insurance for at least 30 million people is ethical?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

you're going to eat those words and feel really fuckin stupid in a couple years, and plenty of liberals with brains agree with me..

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

no...

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

Reply to your post below:

You still haven't answered the question.

Given that that there is nothing to replace the current law on the horizon, given that it will takes years to pass any such law, do you still wish this law be struck down, leaving over 30 million people without health insurance?

I am not talking about the military budget or government funding, I am asking you, given the current state of things, would you deny access to 30 million people until such time as you could somehow make single payer, universal health care coverage into law?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

no ...

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

Reply to your post below.

In that case, do you still wish that the Affordable Care Act is struck down by the court until a better law is passed?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

this argument reminds me on how

the military law to detain people indefinitely without disclosure

was signed because it was connected the years military budget

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

people being forced to pay for private health insurances doesn't effect government funding issues

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

A step forward yep.

[-] 0 points by craigdangit (326) 1 year ago

That's the thing with consumer choice,

We don't need to be deciding where other people give their money.

Let each person decide.

[-] 1 points by craigdangit (326) 1 year ago

Why is President Obama proposing cuts to social security, medicare, and medicaid while spending more on marijuana arrests and raids, especially when a majority of Americans are for legalization of pot and for the open sale of marijuana for medical use?

Please do more research. I'm not trying to be offensive here, but to be honest that sounds a little naive. The special interest groups have O-bomb-ya in their pocket:

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?Ind=H

No rich people make any money when you grow pot in your backyard. Please be more skeptical.

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[-] -2 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Right, so suck it up and work on fixing it and take 5 minutes to vote for Obama again, because it is in your interest to do so. And in mine, also, of course.

[-] 4 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Yes in 2008

No in 2012

[-] 3 points by Kahn (6) from Philipsburg, PA 1 year ago

No in 2008, and no in 2012. I saw right through Obummer's bullshit and lies in 2008, and he's been even worst than I predicted, and no I won't vote for Shit Romney as well.

(How did so many of you get snowed so easily anyway?)

[-] 3 points by the13thfloor (27) 1 year ago

No one should vote for Obama!!! After the Ndaa, the Ndrp and Cispa. It should be obvious that the man's a fucking criminal and a tool of the special interest. Obama should be forcibly fired, and tried for high treason and crimes against humanity!!!

[-] 0 points by Umong (0) 1 year ago

well said !!

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 1 year ago

Clinton - 1992 Clinton - 1996 Gore - 2000 Kerry - 2004 Obama - 2008 Obama - 2012

If not Obama, Mitt Romney, are you kidding. Anyone who votes for Mitt has a total disregard for the evident truth. Mitt wouldn't know the truth if it hit him between the eys. His only purpose is to get elected, gain power, and then give away our country to him and his rich friends.

Vote Obama, and hold his hand to the fire. No, he's not perfect, but at least he's not Mitt Romney. There is a huge difference between Obama and Romney. Romney has no respect for the OWS movement, it scares him. And that says allot about who he is, another greedy grubbing fat cat.

The Puzzler

[-] 3 points by VQkag (930) 1 year ago

I agree. The Prez cannot do what we need because the country has moved so far right it is impossible. we elected him with a glimmer of left turn then we went to sleep. Got lazy. We have awoken again in a very different way. If we can use this to elect more left leaning pols we might get some of these things done but not if we go back to sleep. gotta put the pressure on and keep it on.

[-] 2 points by enough (589) 1 year ago

(CNN) -- During the White House Correspondents' Dinner on Saturday night, Jimmy Kimmel made a joke that President Obama laughed at, but that you could see was just killing him inside.

"Mr. President, do you remember when the country rallied around you in hopes of a better tomorrow?" Kimmel asked. "That was hilarious. That was your best one yet."

[-] 2 points by JoeW (109) 1 year ago

No (but don't even think I considered that joke of a ticket the Republicans had) and Yes (but do not think I leap with joy at the prospect).

If we had good funding behind say a Gary Johnson/Ralph Nader ticket, that would be something I could get a little excited over though.

[-] 1 points by PR1 (120) 1 year ago

Do you ever get tired of talking to yourself, Tr@shy? How many people on this thread are you?

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 1 year ago

hell no, i havent voted the crooked two party system for over 10 years! You majority who did are either brainless, or the voting system has been tampered with.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Yes in 2008 No in 2012

I supported Kucinich from the beginning but he stepped out early due to a lack of support. Apparently the man with the perfect voting record who wants to end the rule of the banks over our government... and voted no on the Patriot Act... and actually had a real plan to budget healthcare and education for all... somehow that man was not considered a "viable option" ...aka not backed by the corporations and the media.

I fell for the 1%'s trap and voted with Goldman Sachs by voting Obama. Also Sarah Palin scared me to death.

[-] 1 points by GringoFrijolero (38) 1 year ago

I voted for Cynthia Mckinney in 2008. I will write in Dennis Kucinich in 2012.

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[-] 1 points by stevebol (1170) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Yes in 2008 None of the above 2012

[-] 1 points by amanofnoimportance (82) from Orlando, FL 1 year ago

Yes I did. Next time I'll vote for the guy who gets people fed up faster.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Strangely nobody voted for McCain. Yet he got several electoral votes. Curious!! But then, nobody voted for Bush in 2004. It must have been, "Fool me once, uh, fool me once, aaahh, fool me twice, well, we just can't let them fools us again." Decider, divider, hell I just let Dick do all of that. I am mostly interested in finding ways to give Federal money to churches.

Sure I voted for Obama. He was, and is, the best candidate that money can buy. I wouild prefer one that can't be bought or isn't a 0.0001% already.

But there aren't any of those available anymore. So while we are straightening this mess, those who say it can't get any worse, are just wrong. Just try N. Koera, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, and several other places.

The GOP has us headed for third world status, where the US Spring would be the only option. Don't want to go there.

[-] 3 points by hoot (313) 1 year ago

"Sure I voted for Obama. He was, and is, the best candidate that money can buy. I wouild prefer one that can't be bought or isn't a 0.0001% already."

there are such things as third party candidates

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

There is Micky Mouse, Spiderman, and John Boy. None of them will do any harm. Nor will they do anything, at all.

Someone will hold the actual offices and there will be consequences.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

elections should be state and national holidays

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Yes, just not for celebrating. Flags at half staff etc.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

ofcourse

some sort of national display to let the citizens know the importance of the day

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

The seriousness has been brought home to most of us.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

exactly

voting should be done with out worrying over other obligation

[-] 1 points by bigman (1) 1 year ago

I didn't vote for him in 2008. THe line to vote was several hours long ..AND..I live in Georgia. It's totally useless voting for a democratic president here. I would re-consider not voting for Obama...the alternative is someone who believes in killing jobs to enrich himself. I will vote for Obama no matter what this time around.

[-] 2 points by gosso920 (-24) 1 year ago

I'm George Soros, and I approve this message.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

A) Yes.

B) No.

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[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Yes!

Here's why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1WbQe-wVK9E#!

[-] 0 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

Why the fuck are people even raising these irrelevances the day before May Day? Get in the streets folks! All out for May Day! General Strike! Let's bring this whole fucking system down. If you don't buy into that what the fuck are you doing on a revolutionary web site like this?

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Just to fuck with your anarchist-loser mind, Jazzypants!

Of course we'll be Voting for Obama! Do you want to commit national suicide and let these insane RepubliCons back in the White House? Supreme Court Justice, Mama Grizzly!??!

And let's have a very effective and impressive May Day! Loud and clear signs, banners and FLAGS! Show Americans we are for America, not against everything!!

[-] -1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

I am not an anarchist, though to any objective observer it is clear that anarchists and those influenced by the anarchist intellectual tradition have been the best Occupy organizers. Indeed it was they who organized the very liberals who immediately began to do little else in the movement excepting to complain about what bad organizers anarchists were and how no real Americans would respond to them despite the fact that it was these very liberals who had just responded to them.

Personally, I'm a revolutionary democratic socialist, a political tendency which has had almost no influence in Occupy so far.

[-] -1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

When the red flags and the black flags start to outnumber the black flags and our tiny numbers grow to the tens of millions, then we will be on our way, but it will still be only a start and it may take several decades to get to that point, but patience is a revolutionary virtue.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

I think there's a liberal putting Obama 2012 stickers on your bus stop!!!

[-] 2 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

Perhaps, but the relationship of such an individual to Occupy is coincidental at best.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

U R relevant to divisive, exclusionary failure.

It's great that you protest against plutocracy, but save your other stuff for the bus stop, would ya?

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

^makes fun of those who use the bus system....

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

He probably calls them capitalist pigs for actually paying the fare.

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

"...save your other stuff for the bus stop, would ya?"

Nice...

[-] 2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

The Bus Stop Preacher!!

[-] -1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

Who is "We?" I have been involved in many different Occupy's, I am very close to people in Occupy LA, and I go to OWS events fairly regularly. While I do meet a few occupy activists who will probably vote for Obama, I have yet to meet a single Occupy activist who plans to do any more than that for Democrats this election cycle. To them the few minutes we spend in a voting booth is no big deal, but that's not going to distract us from the main struggle. And many, many Occupy activists, (most by my decidely unscientific observation) either plan to vote for a third party or not vote at all. So I really don't know who you are talking about in terms of "We" except if you are talking about the liberal trolls on this website who pretend to be Occupy supporters through no fault of their own but basically because they have no real contact with the movement.

Virtually every Occupy activist who I talk too, including those who will cyncially vote for Obama, really does want to bring down this whole fucking system. EVERY FUCKING THING. FUCK CAPITALISM, which is a whole system of consent, not just a way of organizing the ecomomy. For an erotic culture.

[-] 7 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

We only get the democracy we Vote for. If you don't Vote, you don't count! You forfeit your bitching rights, and aid & abet the anti-democratic Right.

Your anarchy is ensured political failure, inherently divisive and just plain dumb. So get back to your bus stop and resume your rat's nest rant to the rush-hour traffic.

We're saving our democracy here: with United ~ Collective ~ Positive Action!

[-] 2 points by flip (4980) 1 year ago

emma goldman said "if voting could change anything it would be illegal!" - which war monger should i vote for this time around?

[-] 4 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

The one who is not in the party who wants a NEW war with Iran.

THe one who will not appoint another Scalia tor two o the Supreme Court. And those like him to scores of federal courts.

The one who has not vowed to destroy Planned Parenthood.

The one who has not vowed to destroy the EPA.

The one who has not defended Citizens United.

The one who has not made millions destroying thousands of jobs.

The one who has not endorsed privatizing Social Security, destroying Medicare and Medicaid, ending Unemployment extensions, and slashing food stamps to pay for the military.

There is so much more, but maybe, just maybe, you get the picture. It is much more than one single issue. And not voting doesn't make sure that no war monger is in office, it just means that all the other issues have no importance to you, even though they will effect every single person in the country.

[-] 1 points by flip (4980) 1 year ago

i don't disagree completely but you for sure overstate the case - with iran - "all options are on the table - including nuclear". he will for sure cut social security and medicare - he is setting the table as we speak with payroll tax cuts. he has not made millions but the money from wall street is pretty evenly split - what does that tell you. the court is a big issue - the only one in my opinion worth voting for - emma made her comments around the womens suffrage issue - the proponents thought it would end war - emma was correct! your single issue is not a small one - lots of bodies all around the world and no reason for it! that is the sickening part - no reason at all! we must change our stance in the world or we are doomed - i am afraid there will not be a better choice but we need one - maybe the 3rd party in the debates will change the mix. and that may happen!

[-] 3 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

I certainly agree that we need a third party. But there is no viable one now, and won't be until we build one over the next few years. Until we do (and we MUST) we HAVE to keep the pure evil that is the republican party from taking office. It won;t change anything by doing that, but the changes that will happen if don't are ones we would regret for a generation.

No, war is not a small issue, but Obama is actually doing everything he can to avoid it with Iran. The rhetoric of everything being on the table is necessary to bring a recalcitrant country to the negotiating table. And it is also necessary to put the war mongers in their place, taking from them the opportunity to claim Obama is weak or soft on ""security", however distorted that is. His pressing for sanctions (as opposed to pure saber rattling the Repubs were doing) , including those from China and Russia, are having the desired effect, and the new negotiations are generating optimistic reports from diplomats around the world. It is everything the republicans opposed

Payroll tax cuts do NOT mean cuts in the programs. They are in order to provide economic stimulus at a time when the Repubs are blocking all other efforts. He has NEVER talked about cutting funding for those programs. Not once. But the other side has, and has repeatedly. I am absolutely NOT overstating the case. The entire domestic agenda of the right wing is to dismantle the social safety net. It has been since Reagan. (Reagan's famous "I knew freedom once" speech was about Medicaid!) They view all social safety net spending as Socialist. And if you look at the Ryan plan, which Romney has endorsed, it does precisely that: it destroys every program that came out of the New Deal.

And Romney himself stated flat out that he would eliminate ALL funding for planned Parenthood. The Republican war on women is real and cannot be overstated. They vow to repeal even the law Obama signed allowing women to sue for gender discrimination in pay.

I am also not overstating the case about the courts. Romney has already announced his chief advisor for making court appointments will be none other than Robert Bork! Christ, HE WAS TO THE RIGHT OF SCALIA!. He was so transparently corrupt as a judge in the Nixon Administration even the Republicans rejected his appointment to the Supreme court. The extreme danger is very very real.

Romney and his buddies have PROMISED to shut down the entire EPA. Repeal the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air act.

They have PROMISED to slash funding of the FDA: they don't want government inspecting our food and interfering with big agribusiness.

They have VOWED to eliminate more regulation on Wall Street and the Banks on the claim that it hurts the free markets.

Seriously if you look at the agendas of both parties, despite some disgusting overlap, they could hardly be more different in terms of the immediate effects they would have on the country.

Finally, as has been stated here time and again, the ONLY side that is splitting the vote is that of the left. The right NEVER does. They ALWAYS vote as a block. So by voting third party, we are in fact voting for an evil that would make Obama look like Pollyanna in comparison. Neither party is wonderful. But the sheer amount of evil on one side dwarfs the worst the other has ever done, at least domestically. Internationally, they have been reckless in their approach to Iran. They have said FLAT OUT that they would re-introduce torture of prisoners, something Obama has made illegal. They have FLAT OUT said they would maintain Guantanamo indefinitely, and have already made its closing virtually impossible despite Obama's best efforts to shut it down. Some have even been making noises about all-out war with Pakistan rather than a few drone attacks near the Afghan border.

Overstating my case? Hardly. It is naive and dangerous to understate it.

[-] 1 points by flip (4980) 1 year ago

sorry but i do not have time for this - if you want to vote for the man go ahead - my wife will for sure. if he has trouble getting elected he has only himself to blame - read suskinds book - he is not up to the job. as i said the court is a big issue. as to the rest of it i notice how many times you said vowed or promised - he had a window to change the world when he first got elected and we got a health ins bill that is a gift to insurance companies. with regard to social security - the payroll tax cuts deplete the trust fund - talk to me in two years when he is saying that there is no money and we have to cut the benefits to save the program. and he is killing poor brown people for no reason as we speak!

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 1 year ago

The vows and promises I mentioned were Romney's not Obama's, and they are up front evil.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20414) 1 year ago

And, how about this? Obama pledges financial and military support to Afghanistan until 2014. Geesh. So much for ending the wars.

http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-afghanistan-strategic-agreement-375/

[-] 1 points by flip (4980) 1 year ago

yes, very sad - he had an opening to really do something but he is not the right guy. lots of people knew that before he was elected. now we have the same crappy choice we get every 4 years - worse or worser!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20414) 1 year ago

Sad is a good word, flip. I am profoundly disappointed.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Worse He commits us to an open ended involvement continuing past 2014.

The People need to be included in policy decisions as The People are supposed to be giving proper direction to government and the government is supposed to be representing The People.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20414) 1 year ago

Yes. This is a real let down.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

This is exactly why everyone must realize that it really does not matter who is in office. "The Peoples Will" will not be done until we claim our proper ownership of the democratic process that is "OURS".

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20414) 1 year ago

Occupy Wall Street!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes where the camel's back was well and truly broken. Where this current fire storm began. Where change must begin and restitution sought.

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Can you say "naive?"

or is it "dishonest?"

[-] 2 points by flip (4980) 1 year ago

it was a dishonest question for sure since obama would could never be accused of being a murderer - but since i was honest about my dishonesty could you answer the question? i assume you are an obama fan - i am not - lesser of two evils no doubt but murdering bastard none the less. just like clinton, lbj and jfk - all great liberals. killing lots of people - to say nothing of deporting them - and for what - are we winning the "war on terror"

[-] 0 points by Dgoerz (20) 1 year ago

If you say Bush is a murderer then Obama is as well. We just went throught the worst month in Afghanistan and no one hears about it because it is Obama and not Bush.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

So you are a Republicon supporter and here to disrupt. Nice.

[-] 1 points by BannedAgain (6) 1 year ago

I hate to beat a dead horse, but if republicans are not welcome to ows, but ya better change that 99% claim!!

[-] 1 points by flip (4980) 1 year ago

very nice - we should be able to speak the truth whether it is about a republican president or democrat

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

You Cons always rely on Dems to save your masochistic asses.

[-] 1 points by BannedAgain (6) 1 year ago

And that was a well thought out reply? Guess I need a Dem to explain your rant. Am sure no conservative could.

I believe our country has problems and the people need to rise up, but I sure as heck do not feel any desire to stand shoulder to shoulder with you conservative minded folks' bashers.

The insulting nonsense thrown at 50% of the 99% will be the death knell for your little temper tantrum. Ever hear of consensus building? I don't mean to just call you out.....people like shooz and shadz66, dka are just as off putting. At least GK is polite.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Your "dead horse" reply was drivel. I point out we defend the 99% if they want it or not. Today's conservatives are either oblivious or fascists.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 1 year ago

So obvious, so simple! Those who are willing to engage in active protest and don't vote are really shooting themsleves in the foot! The reason our democracy is failing is because we are failing our democracy!

The one great advantage the 1% has over us, in the last four decades, has been that most people simply can't be bothered to get off their ass one day every two tears and vote!

The 1% know how to get out the vote, and if we don't even bother to vote ourselves, how the hell can we complain?!!

Those are simple facts. Look at the voter turnout in the last ten elections, it's pathetic! Voting is just the first, but the most necessary action we can take to begin to move the world forward!

Do not disregard ANY positive action that is within your power!

[-] 2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

The system is not broken, it's fixed!

This is all by design.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9727) 1 year ago

It's broken and FIXED. LOL!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The fix is in. That is how government has operated far to often. Time for change, and the greedy corrupt white collar criminals are aware that the movements against them are picking-up steam.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 1 year ago

The system is fixed for a few, broken for the rest.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Fixed by a few to break the rest.

[-] 1 points by alexrai (851) 1 year ago

I agree, even if you just walk you're ass down there and write in Lindsay Lohan or Charlie Sheen you're at least voting against the status quo.

If you sit on your ass and eat cheesy puffs, you defiantly shouldn't be complaining about anything. In fact, that makes you a subservient tool; even if you don't think its going to get counted, or make a difference, the act of getting up off your ass and participating in more than twitter conversations makes the difference.

[-] -1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

I am not here now disputing your formulations as such. They have been dealt with extensively elsewhere. What I do question is the appropriateness of posting such views on a web site that is clearly revolutionary and therefore inconsistent with the views you espouse.

[-] 2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

OWS is not an anarchy ball or slumber party or trash the man in! It's your divisive and repellent views that undermine OWS.

It is a demonstration of American solidarity for American 99% democracy against totalitarian 1% plutocracy. Meant to incite Americans to join together and effect progressive change, successfully!!

Unite and Win!

[-] 2 points by hoot (313) 1 year ago

unite under a candidate that doesn't want to destroy your right of choice, there are plenty of third party candidates, why do we need to conform to a 2 party system?

[-] 2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Because we failed to tend our political system, letting money corrupt it, leaving us with only two viable but corrupted parties, one that hates democracy, one that still believes in it. Thirds won't be viable until we have instant run off. So unless you want to return to the Bush-Cheney years that have gone Charlie Manson cult on acid, you Vote Dem. And tend our political system from now on!

Happy May Day!

[-] 2 points by hoot (313) 1 year ago

voting democrat seemed to return us to the bush cheney years. i dont see a difference between bush's and obama's actions. With the attitude that a third party isn't viable, the third party becomes inviable. but if all of us who are clearly fed up with the system voted third party, then an actual change may occur.

[-] 2 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

Now, at this point, if you care about democracy, Dems are your ticket. A third party vote, now, will guarantee a Con (1%) government.

About not seeing a difference, OPEN YOUR EYES! War against women, union busting, healthcare reform, ending the Bush-Cheney wars for oil...on and on. Here is a short list of just Obama (differences) accomplishments: http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=9880240

To not "see" the Huge and Many differences between Cons and Dems is very suspicious. It's either dishonest (deception) or bias (prejudice).

Our political system has been slipping to the right for 30+ years, where have you people been???

[-] 1 points by hoot (313) 1 year ago

The 2 party system is meant to keep us against eachother. One party is a welfare party(the democrats) the other is a warfare party(the republicans) while they may seem polar in speech, they are two sides of the same party, the party of the 1% (the fascist party of america)

I still don't understand what war is being fought against women, they can get birth control and abortions, i would agree there needs to be equal pay, but i don't see what obama has done, in those those terms. Unions often hurt more then they help (nowadays)

Health care does need to be reformed. But not the way Obama or the dems would have it done. Its clearly unconstitutional and immoral. It is a mandate plain and simple, we need to move away from mandates.

Ending the wars on oil, and starting wars for "social change" the rhetoric is polar to that of conservatives but Obama is still a warmongering 1%er

I read your list and it says he Fixed the auto industry of America, if by that you mean he gave a bunch of money to gm than yea he fixed it. And by that logic he fixed the banking system to right?

funny the list doesn't include some of his other accomplishments such as the passing of NDAA(very similar to bushes patriot act) and NDRP or how about the continuing war in afghanistan or the war in lybia(without congresses approval)

Face it Obama and dems are just as bad as bush and the reps They're all fascists, and closing your eyes to this truth is dangerous. Get off your knees stop sucking Obama's c0ck, and wake the fuk up.

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

All viable and incisive questions... if you were trapped in a non-union coal mine for 3 years. But that would never happen to a RW troll.

Then ~ than... etc.

[-] 1 points by hoot (313) 1 year ago

you can call me a troll all you want, im not the one shoving obamas agenda down peoples throats. I have an opinion just like you, and just because i disagree with your opinion, you call me a troll.

You also seem to lack any facts to back up your opinion.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 1 year ago

RepubliCons have nothing to offer the electorate that they want, unless they are members of the 1% cult. So all they can do is sabotage the Vote, any way they can. The end (getting more control of our government to the 1% and away from the 99%) justifies their means (anything that suppresses the Vote). You are a disgusting means to an evil end!

[-] 1 points by hoot (313) 1 year ago

First off don't talk as if i support the republican party. Second you support a president who supports the 1%. According to your logic, you are the disgusting means to an evil end. Not to mention a closed minded sheep.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (5651) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

There are a lot of people fleeing the Dem's and Rep's lately. USA Today has an article with the numbers. Part of the problem is, so many people think a third-party isn't an option, that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. But, of course, the problem is deeper than that, as some of our more passionate members will be happy to point out. One being, even if a third-party candidate did get elected, they would be thwarted at every turn, effectively getting nothing significant accomplished. It is indeed a tough choice. Also see my post The numbers are there, we just need determination. And a little luck to see a breakdown of some hypothetical numbers.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5651) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

We don't need to conform to a two-party system. Some of us will be voting Independent because we refuse to vote for Obama or Romney.

[-] 1 points by hoot (313) 1 year ago

im glad to hear that the more i read posts on this site the more i see the 1 percent brainwashing people to join 1 of 2 parties the welfare party or the warfare party.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5651) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Most of the people on this site haven't mentioned any affiliations yet, which is a good thing. This site wasn't meant originally to become a platform for political parties. It's just that the closer to the election it gets, the more the conversations have turned that way. It's probably to be expected. Last year most the conversations were about the big problems, not who to vote for. Some people think it should return to that.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

I do not know what I have written that is in any way divisive. I just spend May Day getting the shit kicked out of me by the NYPD. I talked to dozens of Occupiers and not one of them shared the pro-Democratic Party horseshit that I see paraded about on this forum. I discussed this forum extensively with dozens of Occupiers and all of them felt that the better place for the folks who want to drag us into the Democratic Party is probably something like a MoveOn website. HERE it is those people who want to drag us back into the politics of the Establishment who are the divisive ones.

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[-] 0 points by shooz (26673) 1 year ago

You'll have to ask toonces. Good luck getting an answer.

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

What is planned to replace "this whole fucking system" once you bring "this whole fucking system" down?

[-] 0 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

We obviously haven't got that far yet, but get on the bus gus. I think it is indisputable that this is a self consciously revolutionary website. What reformist notions are doing here is beyond me. If anything constitutes trolling it would seem to me that does. Of course we have a long, long way to go before we have coherent revolutionary alternatives, but right now the question is are you going to help figure out what those alternatives are or might be or are you going to keep advocating paltry reforms. I'm not even saying that the recommendation of paltry reforms is necessarily inappropriate. Just not on this website which is very clearly revolutionary in its outlook if you pay any attention at all to what the hard copy says.

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[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Is that what happened in Cuba? Maybe someday we will have that plan, till then we can get rid of the Republicans and make it easier to get the reforms we want, higher wages, healthcare ect... and we will be making room for a new party a real one that is ours, this is how it can work, nothing else will.

[-] 0 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

The "plan" right now, is to build Occupy which is way too big a project to worry about which party of the 1% happens to be in office which is of course unfathomable to arm chair liberals.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Well if you go off "planning" and Romney takes office as a result, you may have to work on that "plan" a bit longer, I suggest we take action now, on those things we can, like getting rid of Republicans.

[-] -1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

I didn't say anything about planning. In fact that's the least of what we should be doing. What we should be doing is exactly what we are doing, building Occupy. Of course that takes a lot of work, far to much work to worry about which party of the 1% is in office, and it also takes some planning, but certainly we should not let the planning overwhelm the building and we should most certainly not let concern about who happens to be in office detract from the main task of building Occupy as a mass culture of opposition, not some tail wagging the dog of the Democratic Party.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

if it's too much work for you to help get Republicans out of office, then you must not be doing much work anyway, pretenting like you can't tell the difference just revels your true self

[-] -1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

Our project is to get Republicans AND Democrats out of office. I just spent May Day getting the shit kicked out of me by NYPD cops. If anything is trolling it is your palaver. I talked to dozens of Occupiers on May Day and none of them have your attachment to the electoral process, much less the Democratic Party. YOU are the troll. Get the fuck off OUR web site. Why don't you go over to a MoveOn website or somebody else who believes in your Democratic Party bullshit and leave Occupy alone. The last thing Occupy needs is someone to eviserate it to the point that it becomes nothing more than an appendage of the Democratic Party.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

makes me almost feel sorry for ron paul

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

look matt you know why ron paul will bring the troops home don't you? he will need them here pointing their guns at you and me if we don't want to paint our walls the color Bank of America tells us to

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

he has lots of money to keep him warm don't worry

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

you've never been to protest, you don't know shit about wealth inequality, that's why you never post about it, you are afraid people will learn how you really feel just as they have with your friend hchc, you're a fake redjazz anybody fooled by you, well I guess i can't blame the victim

[-] -1 points by ShadowBan (-27) 1 year ago

Nice post.

[-] -1 points by hoot (313) 1 year ago

the only people in office that want to help take this country out of its crazy disillusionment happen to be a handful of republicans, stop with the party bashing on both sides, and lets fix the problems at hand. republicans and democrats alike need to unite against the owners of our society

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

the only thing any republican wants to do is cut taxes so the rich can get richer, and American can go more into debt to them

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[-] -2 points by raleighnc (-2) 1 year ago

Just how are you going to "get rid of Republicans"?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

If you can't think of ways to reduce the GOP vote then you are not really that helpful when it comes to action are you?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

vote ron paul

[-] 2 points by ronniepaul2012 (214) 1 year ago

Indeed. The 3rd party candidate working within the 2 party system!!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Would you care to defend why banks and other corporations should have no regulation at all?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago
[-] -1 points by raleighnc (-2) 1 year ago

Sorry, was that an answer?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

ok for you just go vote for the dem, that really is the least you can do

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

This clown facts doesnt even go to occupy, you are wasting your time.

I can assure you it is more focused on outside answers, rather than listening to corporate parties give us their own solutions.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

1sealyon

aburrunderyourblanket

aflockofdoofi2

BLOWCHUNKS

Boric

DanielBarton

Dell

e2420

engineer4

EricBlair

F350

Farmerbrown

HapteMikael

hchc

Ironboltbruce

JanitorInaDrum

jimmycrackerson

JuanFenito

MsStacy

po6059

Rebdem

slammersworldwillnotbecensored

slizzo

waarheid

Wellhungjury

Speaking of getting the fundamentals down how do you think I did in these?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-about-a-few-fundamentals-about-capitalism/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/fundamentals-of-capitalism-part-two/

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

So, you want to destroy freedom and you have no plan on what system it is replaced with? Doesn't sound like a good idea. Look what happened in Egypt. That was supposed to be a new beginning and it looks like the bad government has been replaced with a worse government.

[-] 2 points by the13thfloor (27) 1 year ago

I don't think the people would make a worse government than the one we have. maybe in 250 years, that's how long it took our "government of the people" to get this bad...

[-] -1 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

I bet the blind china guy that ran to the American Embassy would debate you on how bad American government is comparatively.

I wonder why he didn't run to the French embassy or the Russian embassy or the Egyptian embassy?

[-] 0 points by BannedAgain (6) 1 year ago

Good question! Doubt you'll get a good answer!

[-] -1 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

I imagine there will be some who look at the question and honestly answer it themselves. It may change minds.

[-] 0 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

The Egyptian revolution is far from over. Revolutionary democrats are still in the streets and will continue to be, as we are here, until real freedom is won. And speaking of trolls, I still have no idea why you and people of your ilk are doing on a revolutionary web site except to disrupt it.

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[-] 0 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

Who said ANYTHING about destroying freedom? The fact is none of us is at all free for the half our working lives we spend at work. We are all wage slaves. We leave the Constitution at the door when we enter work every day where the most elemental rights of free speech and due process are absent. This utter lack of democracy in the work place contaminates what little democracy we have off the job. Far from destroying freedom Occupy wants us to free ourselves.

[-] 4 points by the13thfloor (27) 1 year ago

I support this movement fully, but neither of you are touching the real issues; obama has been killing americans. the passed the NDAA, the NDRP and CISPA. Our government is WAY out of line, and there's no freedom left anywhere!!!

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[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

You said, "Get in the streets folks! All out for May Day! General Strike! Let's bring this whole fucking system down.' "the whole fucking system" is American capitalism and freedom. If you bring "the whole fucking system" down, you will be destroying American capitalism and freedom.... So, it was you who said "anything" about destroying freedom.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

What is the specific relationship between capitalism and freedom. Most of the evidence would suggest an inverse relationship, especially with the 1% owning more and more of the wealth. That certainly is not my definition of freedom.

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

The product of your labor is yours to keep in the tenants of both in freedom and capitalism.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

Such abstractions conveniently avoid the fact that disparities of wealth have increased so much that today we are actually in a position where the differences between the rich and the poor is actually greater than it was during the Gilded Age.

[-] -1 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

Greed and jealousy will destroy you. Occupy your own life and stop worrying about what someone else has.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 1 year ago

What an Oxymoron. Our problem is that we are greedy and therefore the solution is not to worry about anyone else? It is the 1% that are greedy. It is they who have stolen from us and we intend to get it back.

[-] 0 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

That 1% does not want to take money from you or even care about the money you have. They have created something people want or need and the world has beaten a path to their door. They did not steal what they have, people gleefully traded money for their product.

The only reason you care about what he has is because of your own greed and jealousy.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26673) 1 year ago

Greed and jealousy will make you a CEO on Wallstreet.

Some people just keep missing that important point.

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

That CEO does not want to take money from you or even care about the money you have. The only reason you care about what he has is because of your own greed and jealousy.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26673) 1 year ago

WallStreet CEOs take money from me every single day.

Every day. In so many ways.

They've also put you in a daze.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

The government TAKES. CEO's make a product you CHOOSE to spend on.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26673) 1 year ago

Really???

I would like YOU to attempt to live your life, and work for no one and purchase nothing.

That includes your internet connection.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

stop worrying about what others have ?

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Not in the vote that counted, not in the primaries, but I'm not stupid I did vote to keep McCain out of office so of course like all sane Americans I voted for Obama in Nov.

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

YES

[-] -3 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

Will you vote for him again this year?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (10721) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

not if they disban the SCOTUS before election day otherwise yes

[-] -1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

These four men REQUIRE that you vote for Obama

John Roberts +
Antonin Scalia +
Clarence Thomas +
Samuel Alito

If you don’t believe them,
…….ask Newt Gingrich or John McCain about Citizens United
OR
…….ask the family of any soldier killed in Iraq about bush v Gore

OR

Are you afraid to answer the questions -
……why do supreme court appointments make no difference ?
……why do ( roberts + alito ) = ( sotomayor + kagan ) ?
.……do you believe that President Gore would invade Iraq ?
…….do you believe that President Gore would NOT read his PDBs ?
And are you smart enough to answer these questions without changing the subject
to what you don’t like about Obama?


Just because Scalia and Thomas take koch brothers money –
you don’t have to


[-] -3 points by toonces (-117) 1 year ago

When will Bush be out of office and Obama be in office? How long after Romney is president will it be before you blame him for everything you claim is wrong in your little world?

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

The primary "tell" of an Rs - They twist the truth into a lie -
I never blamed bush for "for everything you claim is wrong in your little world?" .

And- of course - you are afraid to answer my questions. funny boy!
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[-] -2 points by Endgame (535) 1 year ago

Yes in 2008.

Yes in 2012.

Even though I have serious issues with how he has failed to call out the far right GOP. After those first couple of months of right wing bs. He should of known the only thing they respect is real political pressure. Obama failed to do that. He was naive. Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes. I think he has. And honestly, there is no way im going to vote for Romney. He stands for nothing. And when he chooses to stand for something its whatever the far right fringe want him to stand for.