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Forum Post: China settles 100,000 poorest residents into new homes

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 3, 2013, 11 p.m. EST by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Not to say that China doesn't have any problems, but this is a step in the right direction:

"A southwestern Chinese province with the largest impoverished population in the country will relocate more than 100,000 destitute rural residents into modern communities before spring 2013.

The move was part of a poverty alleviation project initiated last year to move 2 million farmers out of the province's poverty-ridden mountainous and desert areas within nine years."

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-01/04/c_124178248.htm

The new homes are near an industrial park and local governments will provide job training to help new residents adapt to their new lives.

This sort of things happens on an increasingly regular basis these days. Shouldn't the US be doing the same?

83 Comments

83 Comments


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[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

What happens to the land they were farming? Is that land being sold to manufacturers?

[-] 1 points by Kavatz (464) from Edmonton, AB 1 year ago

I'd bet their land was intentionally flooded for reservoirs. They are crazy about hydro electricity and so move anyone near them.

It's just crazy what's going on with hydro worldwide. So many problems, such as "reservoir induced seizmicity", which means the new bodies of water they place on top of fault lines cause earthquakes. It was known decades ago. That's what caused the 2008 one there, and hundreds of others. FACT.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I'm not sure in this particular case. But usually, these are small farmers working by hand. Often, their farms are consolidated, and are farmed by larger operations working with agricultural machinery.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

The reason that I am asking is that there are several farmers (and alleged riots) of farmers that have been run off their land or having the land confiscated for private manufacturers. So, basically. this is theft of their land?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

This might have something to do with it.

(quote)Rare-earth mining in China comes at a heavy cost for local villages

Pollution is poisoning the farms and villages of the region that processes the precious minerals(unquote)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/aug/07/china-rare-earth-village-pollution

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Check this out and tell me what you think. http://www.chinascopefinancial.com/news/post/12847.html

and then there is this. http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2012/11/mining-accident-in-guizhou-kills-18/

It's looking like this is more of a relocation effort for profit.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It would appear that corporations prefer to operate where regulators can be more easily paid off. The bottom line comes before safety, and safety costs money.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Ya, that's a given and a continued problem in all nation-states. That said, they seem to be having the same problems all over China including the cities. There are problems with getting paid, an inability to afford housing with pay, and poor/lethal working conditions. Further, why take an area rich in resources that technically should have no reason whatsoever for the level of poverty and move them from the area to obtain those resources? Is there no reason for those companies to educate and provide those jobs that will require skills? Whom will be brought in to do that work?

http://www.dnaindia.com/mobile/report.php?n=1772649&p=0

Now, we are talking http://csis.org/files/publication/120824_Nakano_ProspectsShaleGas_Web.pdf

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Obviously it is for profit. What are we stupid? God damn people are fucking easy to manipulate just give them something anything to go on a vrrooom they are off!

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2439) 1 year ago

of course it is do you honestly think the Aristocratic Pigs running the show there give have a rat's ass about those poor farmers - people are sooo naive - This is what comes out of the positivist movement huh? Ignorance (I guess it is bliss)

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

At some point you have to move from "Aristocratic Pigs" to precise entities.

[-] 1 points by elf3 (2439) 1 year ago

why?! all aristocratic pigs are the same species- I see no need to name them or create separate categories by country, by government, or by corporation.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Because this is great fun when you are smacking your cohorts on the back and slurping up beer but it doesn't do a hell of a lot of good when you actually have to deal with them as in confront and alter law or labor practices.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

There are probably some cases in which that happens. There is also a lot of propaganda about China in the west. Sometimes, it seems like any good thing that happens in China is made to seem like a bad thing.

Doing farm work on small plots of land is neither very fun nor profitable. Over past decades, many workers in China have moved from their farms to the cities to find better paying employment. This happens everywhere when economic development occurs.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Ya, I am pretty careful when it comes to reading about China because of the propaganda. I have to read from a multitude of sources and keep in mind that each has an agenda. That said, riots in this region seem to be an ongoing problem.

From an earlier article: But in a striking departure from government-style rhetoric, he went on to say that it was the shortcomings of local officials that had caused long-simmering anger among local people, blaming them for failing to pay attention to disputes over mines and the relocation of migrant workers. http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/baotong-07082008111707.html

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

You may want to include "Xinhua" in your reading list:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/china/index.htm

Its the official news source of the Chinese government, so its bound to contain propaganda. But it also seems to present a lot of "un-sensationalized" down to earth news. Its a good balance to what you might read in the west.

The Chinese government does recognize that the problems of internal corruption are significant, you regularly see news articles here reporting this. One recent article in Xinhua suggested that the communist party could be destroyed if problems of corruption, with their resulting riots, were not resolved.

Some past initiatives, such as whistle blower hotlines, have helped this. So has the availability of the internet to the population, allowing them to express their opinions and criticisms of the government. This may have been a little too effective however, as recent government policy changes have reduced the anonymity that was previously available online.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I have and I used to post last year up at China Daily forums.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I didn't know China Daily has forums. Can you provide a link?

It seems you must have quite an interest in China. Why is that? Ever consider a journey to the east?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/forum.php

I used to love to cruise the pictures and information of villages with all that history. Secondly, even though it is limited in many ways, it was one of the only ways that I could find (in English) to listen to what people in China thought about issues: local, national and international.

I am always interested in other cultures. I am very much interested in international relations. I have every intention of taking my son to see China one day.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I see, I also like getting the perspective of Chinese people, and am interested in international relations as well.

As an English teacher here, I've been developing a concept for a class on "personal diplomacy" intended to create more direct relationships between the people of the US and China.

The class would develop an understanding of economics, for example, what once made the US economy great and why did it fail, as well as what factors help the Chinese economy to grow, and which ones have created a dependency on the declining west.

The class would encourage Chinese students to make direct contact with westerners, using applications such as skype, to practice their English. Probably, the westerners would be students of Chinese language, who could benefit from the interaction as well.

There are many projects that China and the US could work on together to revitalize the global economy. One of them would be the train route that could connect North America with all of Asia via a tunnel under or a bridge over the Bering Strait near Alaska.

If you have a chance to travel here, I'd recommend Xian. Its in the north, so very cold in the winter but quite nice in the summer. Xian's history is very ancient, being the capital of the Zhou dynasty, during the 11th century BC. Located at the end of the silk road, it has quite an interesting mixture of Chinese, Islamic and Central Asian cultures.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Yes, that's the idea, but with more of a particular focus on issues of politics, economics and international collaboration.

Are you interested in learning Chinese? I've developed a course to teach myself and have reached about an intermediate level. I can have basic conversation with people here. I'd like to try my course out on a westerner some time, as a trial run for the language exchange concept. Let me know if you'd like to give it a try via Skype.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I just might. Let me take a look at what I have going on and I might just do that.

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

And so the government is making them "dependent" instead of allowing them to be independent by farming. I guess this is a good idea if you don't like to farm anymore.

Now they will become shackeled by the government that will force them to do whatever it wants them to do for the needs of the government.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Whenever people live in a society, they “depend" on each other. Those small scale Chinese farmers, for example, depended on a market for their produce. They weren't just subsistence farmers.

I live in a Chinese city and don't see people here "shackled" by the government to do their bidding. People here take and leave jobs as they so desire. I think you are listening to too much globalist propaganda, intended to divide and conquer the US and China.

The US and China should be natural allies, like we were in WWII.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

So you are in favor of forced relocation and being forced to work in factories for the capitalist machine instead of rural farming? Wouldn't these people have been far better off if they were taught permaculture and provided with heritage and heirloom livestock and seeds? I think you are looking at this story all wrong.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I think its a question for the people who have moved, are they happy with it or not? My guess, from knowing Chinese people, is that they are very happy with it. Poor Chinese people generally love to move up.

As any country progresses, its bound to start using agricultural machinery to do more of the farm work, while many of the people who lived on farms and did low paid labor, will be able to move to the cities to seek higher skilled, higher paid work.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

That is a bunch of nonsense.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I think that you have just come to believe the hate China propaganda that is so prevalent in western media. I thought that China was a bad place also before coming here, but found my expectations to be quite unjustified.

There are bad things that happen in China, like I said in the original post, but this is an example of a good thing, poor people being able to improve their lives.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

no dude this is an example of state force being used to force relocation of citizens from their lands. what you have to understand is this land will either be sold for development out right now or the land will be rehabilitated and sold. either way the people are forced from their land and lively hood to work in factories for multinational corporations. china could easily have assisted these farmers as they have others with improving land conditions as done in this documentary if land conditions were in fact so poor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

From what I could see, that video did not make any particular reference to what is happening in China. So how do you know that this is what's happening in China? I must assume you are guessing or are generalizing.

Check out the following to see what is specifically happening in China, Tibet in the case of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHdi8Vsnw8g

The new home owner appears to be quite happy.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

You mean the same tibet that china illegally occupies? Wow how disconnected are you. The video was an example of what they could have done.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Tibet was already occupied before the Chinese went there. The office of the Dalai Lama was originally established by the Mongolians, Kublai Kahn I believe, the descendent of that great humanitarian Ghenghis Kahn, set up the original Dalai Lama to function as a puppet dictator for the Mongolian empire.

Due to the greed and backwardness of the lama class in Tibet, it remained a feudal nightmare up until the 1950s. China couldn't allow that to go on. The Dalai Lama, like other typical high lamas in Tibet, owned thousands of people as serfs or slaves. The majority of the Tibetan people have no interest in his return.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Wow you are fucking brainwashed.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I used to be a "free Tibet" guy, had the bumper sticker and everything. I've been reading about Tibet for about thirty years now. At first, I was interested in Tibetan mysticism, and believed in the lie of Tibet as some kind of spiritual kingdom.

Gradually, with all the reading that I did, I came, slowly at first, to see that Tibet was not all that I was being lead to believe. It started out when I heard about young Tibetan monks being raped by their elders.

Then after reading an article by Michael Parenti, one of America's favorite liberal professors:

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

I learned that it was all a lie. Is Michael Parenti brainwashed?

The Hollywood movies and popular books about Tibet are financed by the big money establishment for the purpose of weakening both China and Tibet through a divide and conquer strategy.

China puts hundreds of millions of dollars into Tibet every year. What do you want them to do, just take their money and go? The Tibetans are poor people, they benefit greatly from Chinese investment, not to mention Chinese tourism, which is one of the biggest parts of their economy.

You're pretty quick to accuse others of being brainwashed. Can you consider that you might be brainwashed? If not, then you probably are.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Did you honestly just defend the Chinese treatment of Tibet and on top of that say the Tibetan people are benefiting. Wow conversation terminated. You really are dumb no other way to put it.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

If the Tibetan people had wanted the Chinese out, they could have joined in the original uprising against China that the Tibetan aristocracy held. They didn't though, did they?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Having all the jobs, all the brains and all the resources has its benefits.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Its not all that great, jobs are increasingly difficult in an already difficult job market. This is mostly due to the decline of the west, and China's built in dependence on the west as a consumer for its cheap manufactured goods.

We'd all be better off, if the US put Wall Street through bankruptcy reorganization, started a credit system for economic development, and started manufacturing advanced infrastructural goods, both for itself and for third world countries.

Once these were installed, on credit, both here or abroad, they would start to "make money", which would then be used to make payments back into what would become a growing national credit system.

[-] 0 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Agenda 21. Even China is falling in line.

Should the US subvert the promise of freedom and liberty? Should the US Government now employ forced relocation of it's population so as to submit to greater Global/UN control and Governmental subjugation?

Should you have your head examined? Yes!!

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Quite obviously, you don't approve of building housing for poor people.

[-] 0 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

We already have HUD for that. But this is about the consolidation of people from the rural to the city. You can't control and manipulate people if they're spread out everywhere.

Agenda 21. That's all this is under the guise of "Green" environmentalism.

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Many people in China have moved from small farms to the cities to seek better paying jobs. This happens whenever a country develops economically.

We are not talking about prosperous family farms here, with modern equipment to make life easier. Small farmers in China lead very difficult lives.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

The corporate machine needs more peasants for the factories.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

There's nothing wrong with working in a factory. Those peasants want to become middle class citizens.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

There is everything wrong with it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Oh really? I've been to some of those factories, lived in them for a period, and have talked with some of those workers there who are quite happy with their jobs. These workers would be quite offended to hear someone bad-mouthing their boss and the company they work for.

Though their pay isn't high by western standards, many of them are able to save enough money to eventually return to their villages where they buy a home or a business.

Granted their are some factories that are highly abusive as well. This is part of the power structure though that was set up through the process of globalization by western corporations in China.

The better option for China would have been to do what FDR had planned, which was to use the US post WWII manufacturing capacity to manufacture and export high tech infrastructural goods to China on credit. Once these were installed in the economy, they would begin producing wealth, part of which would have payed off the US credit.

Taking this approach today, not just with China, but all developing countries, would solve the US economic crisis, as well as dramatically reduce poverty around the world.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Not Glenn Beck again.

You really are a FLAKESnews flake.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Time to take back the land for use as farming. It it more environmentally efficient, cost effective, & more social for people to live in cities

We were MEANT to .live in cities. When we settled cities millenium ago we became CIVILized!!!

What are we nomadic, savages living like isolated animals? No we are civilized people who depend on each other for survival.

Cities are the right way to live.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

I disagree about cities alone. Small eco communiteis and large eco cities are the way forward. The thing that must die is the modern strip mall suburbia. Huge waste of land and resources. Small towns and villages are usually compact town centers with outer rings of agriculture or industry and housing. These can be transitioned rather easily to sustainability. It is the suburbs that must be transitioned to food production and industry as a means to retain viability. Even as bad as the suburban situation is though many suburban communities could be retrofit and rehabilitated with the kind of implements that can make them sustainable.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I agree, current model of suburbia is least efficient and must be the target of improvement.

Much should be eliminated, or consolidated into small compact (more dense) carbon footprint aware towns (small cities).

Many small towns (cities) are fine but all communities MUST become more dense, build up, in order to become more efficient and create best carbon footprint.

I don't to fight for that because I believe that will be a natural progression that will be unstoppable.

[-] 0 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Another Agenda 21 proponent I see,already been fooled into believing the lies.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

There's just not enough Bigfoot.

Glenn Beck. My God man.

No wonder you can't think straight.

How are you doing on those resolutions?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I supported the concept and live the life long before agenda 21 was passed 20 years ago.

City life is better than suburban/rural living without a doubt.

Knock down the suburbs, move the people into highrises, and return the land back to productive farm use.

"it's the only way to be sure"

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

"City life is better than suburban/rural living without a doubt."

Each to his own. The choice should be up to the free will of the person not the whims of the State with an agenda of control.

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Car based suburbs are hell but we can fix any problem. We have civil engineers and architects who specialize in this stuff.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The State already decides where we can live, how big we can build, and they always have. Whatta you blind.? Who do you think decides? YOU? Aaaaaaaah ha ha ha ha?

The trick is to keep control of the govt (we've let the 1% corp oligarchs buy the peoples govt out from under us) and have the state be the peoples will.

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

You're wrong. We still have the freedom to decide where to live. But you advocate for Agenda 21 and the repeal of freedoms and for the tyranny of the Government.

You advocate for Government tyranny and control.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We have limited freedom. You can live in a national park legally.

You can't build a highrise in a rural community, You can't build a single family house in a manufacturing district.

You can't build any homes on farmland (until the govt allows it and viola! Suburbs) You can't build a 2 family house in most suburbs (very wasteful)

NOTHING can be built outside the codes set down by the govt.

So YOU are wrong. We have already chosen to live with govt (PEOPLE) limiting where we live. We do have to take our govt back from the corp 1% oligarchs (who encouraged the mistake of car centric suburban living).

But we are now limited and guided to a destructive, & expensive model of suburban living. WE are better off ifwe live in cities near work, food, transportation, other people.

Get it?

[-] 1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

I get that you advocate for Agenda 21 and are most likely a Government agent of some sort.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Would you please take your silly Glenn Beck crap back to theblaze?

FLAKESnews has beyond a doubt made a flake of you.

Get some help. You need it.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

And that makes you a tin hat wearing, paranoid, UN is coming for my guns and freedom conspiracy theorist.

Better prep, doomsday's comin.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

It is almost too good to be true, innit?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

Happy New Year GF.!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Happy New Year back at you!

[-] -1 points by outlawtumor (-162) 1 year ago

Actually that makes you even more ignorant about issues then I thought.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I question you're ability to have and/or recognize a thought if you happened to have one. LOL.

did the same voices in your head that told you the UN is coming tell you that you had a thought?

Don't believe them. It is not likely you had a thought.

[-] -1 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

Ain't those Marxists great!

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Actually, China is going increasingly capitalist. The city where I live seems like an endless expanse of private businesses.

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

taking our queue from China?

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

You mean cue?

.

[-] 1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Yep, queue is a line. My error. Question still applies, thoe :)

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

China's regime owns so many US debt bonds, they now dictate financial decisions in the US. Does that answer your question?

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

Nauseatingly, you hit the nail on the head.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

China is a big, ancient, complicated country, with many different ways of doing things going on simultaneously.

One current in China, is the American System, as established here by Sun Yat Sen. It sought the internal development of China through improvements in industry, agriculture and public infrastructure.

In a way, you could say that China took its "queue" from the original American System, regarding these sorts of initiatives. And furthermore, that we Americans should take the queue from our own history, and recognize the opportunity for collaborating with countries like China in doing so.

[+] -4 points by queef (-69) 1 year ago

All the poor here are LIVING in cities already asshole. Maybe we should move them to the country.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Rural poverty is a problem in the US---asshole. Do some fucking research.

Either way the homeless could be moved in to where the resources are.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Why don't you move to the country and try to make your living farming by hand idiot.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Yes that is the way to do it. The permaculture way. Sure you might need some heavy machines to contour the land in the initial phase but after that its all gravy. Obviously you don't know about permaculture.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I think that corporate farms are unsustainable and that returning to family farms would be a much better way to go.