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Forum Post: [DELETED]

Posted 1 year ago on May 1, 2013, 2:54 a.m. EST by anonymous ()
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42 Comments

42 Comments


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[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

You're not going to end capitalism until you can prove to the majority there is something that will work better.

It might be more productive to focus on making the regulation of capitalism more effective and fair.

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[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Well you've set yourself a worthy goal. It's going to require just that too. A functioning economic system actually being built, not simply talked about.

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[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Doesn't matter what anyone says. It's only results that count.

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[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Capitalism will end when an large enough majority want it to. Most don't see anything better at this point in time.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

We have already tried making the regulation of capitalism more effective and fair. It didn't work. It will never work because capitalism depends on a dog eat dog life. It's time to evolve.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

There are certainly problems finding politicians that are not corrupted by money. That makes effective regulation difficult if not impossible to obtain. That doesn't change the fact that an overwhelming majority of people actually believe capitalism at its worst is better then any form of socialism.

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

How can we change the overwhelming majority to believe that something new would be better than capitalism even at it's best?

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

There isn't one formula for changing the minds of people. If I had to make a suggestion it would be a multi pronged approach. Recruiting honest people to run for congress, lobbying for better regulation, better pay, a more equitable tax system.

Anyone is free to work toward ending capitalism, I just don't see that as being successful in America.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

There is a formula but we aren't using it yet. The Revolution is Love!

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Real revolution? You're as likely to have an authoritarian right wing emerge from that as anything else.

I'm biased, I have a preference for change through the system. The problem is the same though, getting the masses to take some positive action.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Yes, a real revolution. I am not happy with what currently exists. The Revolution is Love is obviously non-violent. Changing through the system is going up against pros that prevent the very change we need.

The masses taking positive action is all we need. The motivation for the masses is Love!

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

We may be essentially talking about the same thing. If people could agree on what form their government should take and how their economy should be run and stay actively engaged in the process we'd get change.

Up to now that's been a problem. The masses are not united in any particular set of goals. They also seem too easily distracted with their own private lives and fail to stay aware of what's happening in the political and economic arena.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

The masses are only concerned with their own lives and expect others to protect them from tyranny. They will unite when the cause and the time is right. Let's hope something happens soon to spark the revolution.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

It may happen, I don't see any possibility for it any time soon. There wasn't a rebellion during the Great Depression, things were a lot worse. As bad as things may look now, I don't believe there is enough true economic misery for any kind of revolution.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

It will be different than any other "rebellion", because it will occur with sheer numbers insisting on a return to democracy. When the masses realize their power, the new economics will create the greatest advancement in human history. No more competing with each other... we all live together.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Sounds like a nice dream. I don't believe human nature is up to that level of altruism.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

We love you whether you help or not.

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[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 1 year ago

Perhaps, the abolition of slavery was certainly better then continuing the war.

It doesn't matter though, you can't get capitalism changed or eliminated unless you can convince a majority to do it. At best people are moving very slowly toward accepting a slightly more socialist state. Even with that there is no strong national movement with the numbers that could hope to eliminate capitalism for a very long time.

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

You are behind on your understanding of merchants being able to mark up profits as high as possible. Price fixing by large corps establish prices, unlike previous times when competition itself established prices.

Capitalism needs to be altered and eventually abandoned, but I am curious why so many of my employees thanked me that i had a business that paid them to work. Most employers work and need their employees to work with them to generate enough sales to pay everyone, often there are no profits.

[-] -2 points by ProblemSolver (79) 1 year ago

The Slaves of Thomas Jefferson Loved him too. But, they were slaves .. of a different world a different time .. some day your world of Capitalism will be of a different world , of a different time.. When all is shared equally .. and there is fairness across the land.. When dreams really do come true.

  • Some-day
[-] 1 points by Stormcrow2 (-184) 1 year ago

Never heard of "capitalist LAW. Seems to me if a person doesn't want to work for an employer they should go into busiess for themselves.

But I guess that's not an option because the vast majority of people who work for employers don't want to take the risk to do it.

To be an employer one has to be "business smart" to survive. - and in order to survive an employer needs to make a profit.

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[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

I Agree.... it is the BEST answer.... all else will easily follow....

  • the biggest problem here at occupywallst/forum is that many of us are still looking at the problem as an "either/or" situation... ie
  • Capitalism is better than Socialism ... or ... Socialism is better than Capitalism ...
  • the Only truthful answer... is that all systems and ideals have their positives & negatives....
  • so the answer is to incorporate the Best of all systems & ideals...
  • to start with ... we need to give the "Federal Reserve Bank" competition...
  • with a balancing "Social Reserve Bank"...
  • and then the details will quickly show themselves
[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

hmmm.... maybe we should call it... the "States Reserve Bank"...

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[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

PS, in my opinion... we need to think about the ease of implementation....

  • God him/herself could bring us the "perfect system"... and the people will fight it....
  • people will fight things that they are not used to... people have much fear...
  • I agree that " the real limited resources will be our environment.. and our labor force."...
  • but I also realize that trying to get a new system in place worldwide overnight would be impossible...
  • it needs to be a step at a time...
  • the States are already moving towards State owned Banks for local economic development support....
  • why can't we easily demand Treasury support for those Banks at the same levels the Fed currently entertains? ... fair is fair...
  • once that happens ... our social issues will be funded

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[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

ok... PS... good luck starting your civil war ... ???

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Says it's okay to dredge up an argument that's been thrashed out and dismissed before.

It is time to end this tired non-argument.

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[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

In a country with regulated banks, and controlled capitalism, the middle class thrives, and so does the economy.

What you need to be opposing is the deregulation of both the banks, and the corporations.

Reinstate Glass-Stegal, and overturn Citizen's United.

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[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Remove private enterprise?

You're proposing communism, or a version of socialist collectivism.

Good luck with that, because you'll need all the luck you can muster.

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[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

"free market" capitalism is private tyranny.

Regulated capitalism is the reason America became a great nation.

Such a shame your congress got bought out by the highest briber/bidder.

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[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Not profit cap. It won't work.

I've already stated that I believe regulated capitalism works, and has worked.

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[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Show me where profit cap has ever been a part of regulated capitalism.

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[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Show us where it has worked.

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[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Without ant facts to back your opinion, the statement is irrelevant. Just hot air that soon dissipates.

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[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Show us where it worked.

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[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Oh, I get it. You're VQ, right?

[-] 0 points by shooz (17710) 1 year ago

Capitalist LAW say's union busting is desirable, for lowering wages and benefits, while raising profits!!!

[-] 0 points by Sandy0621 (175) 1 year ago

That may or may not be true. Your problem is there is no real support to actually change the laws.

The majority believe that regulated capitalism and the competition it provides work better then a pure libertarian socialism.

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[-] -1 points by Sandy0621 (175) 1 year ago

You're one of the few. If capitalism is going to be eliminated it's going to take generations for it to happen.

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[-] 0 points by Sandy0621 (175) 1 year ago

Oh on that I might agree with you, if a crash happens soon and is total. You might find people turning more toward an authoritarian government though. If a crash doesn't happen the mass of people will go back to their own private concerns and not pay any attention to what the rich have.

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[-] 0 points by Sandy0621 (175) 1 year ago

Those two billion live in places where there is little economy of any kind. Capitalism will only fall if it fails in the developed nations. The poverty in the third world only makes those two billion more susceptible what capitalism promises.

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[-] 0 points by Sandy0621 (175) 1 year ago

You may be right, but that doesn't matter. The problem is to convince the world there is something better that would actually work and not make them worse off then they are now.

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[-] 0 points by Sandy0621 (175) 1 year ago

It isn't the elite that you have to worry about. The public in general is not willing to trust that some form of socialism would be any better then capitalism.

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[-] 1 points by Sandy0621 (175) 1 year ago

I'm not saying it's great. What I'm saying is that based on what I see there is no public support for dismantling capitalism. Pension systems depend on the profits generated from it, just over half the people in the US own stock.

My own public employee pension system depends on profit made by companies it's invested in so there is certainly some self interest in the present system.

There is also the question of what do you replace it with? There is no way a majority are going to accept any form of socialism in this country.

People might support higher taxes for the wealthy and more regulation, but there is no large mass of people out there in the US looking to end capitalism.