Forum Post: Can anyone tell me an accomplishment of the leaderless OWS?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 13, 2011, 1:44 a.m. EST by dantes443322
(148)
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Seriously, I was on board when it was to get money/K street/corps. out of politics. But what is the message now? Violence, rape, suicides, etc...
Now it's turned into 'if you have a gripe, come on down.'
What I think has been accomplished so far is that some people (not all) are starting to openly discuss the complete corruption of the US government, how it relates to endless wars and central banking.
From these core issues others are being brought out into the light.
The people know the system is broken - it's how we repair or replace it that will take some time and organization.
And I don't believe a small inner circle of organizers in NY should be speaking or representing all the goals and aims of this movement. So a lot more organising and transparency is needed - but it will come with time as people find their feet.
But I think this will be a slow road unless the banksters decide to impload the currency or bomb Iran and start WW3
One accunplished is OWS last for almost 2 months without any leader.
That is correct. As I talk to the people around me there is a real sense that they are trying to understand what Wall Street has done and how our financial system works. Some eyes are being opened. Who knows what this will mean in the long-run. Maybe Obama's got it right: Change takes time. Occupy is keeping the general angst front-and-center if nothing else.
"What I think has been accomplished so far is that some people (not all) are starting to openly discuss the complete corruption of the US government"
And sincerely, I hope they did. I've been labeled as a troll before trying to help OWS. I am more aligned with the Tea Party. But as I stated before (when I was referred to as a troll) if OWS would stick with one or two goals- corp. money out of politics, and corps. being allowed to fail (no bailouts.) then there could be true change. As of now, OWS won't accomplish a damn thing.
I think OWS is promoting dialogue.
Apart from Ron P.aul - who else in govt would talk about the Federal Reserve and really mean it? There is still only a small portion of the entire population that have a clue about this issue. But there have been countless posts here on the topic and I imagine with the right balance of people staying part of this movement - these types of issues will rise to the top of the pile.
Without a balance of opinion it will however just turn into either a movement to stop people voting or a movement to reinstate an establishment president who will tinker around the edges.
If this is really about the 99% then its a guarantee that there will be differing opinions on just about everything. But if we all listen, weigh up the pros and cons on all sides of the argument, we will find common enough ground to make affective change.
Clearly the system of government and monetary issues have driven people onto the streets in frustration and desperation.
How this will end who knows but it is very good and also very very dangerous.
Clearly the system of government and monetary issues have driven people onto the streets. How this will end who knows but it is very good and also very very dangerous
Amen. (or Damn Right! if your an atheist :-) )
Right now, they have the power and numbers, but absolutely no coherent message. When you state that you will find common ground soon enough to make change, sorry, I don't believe it. I'm not trying to be ab as* here. Like I said, if OWS had their goals set out as their original statements, I would be fully behind them. They, you? (not sure if you have any pull in the movement, and that;s not meant disrepectfully)
OWS' main flaw is total inclusion. KKK, sure, they have a voice....NBPP, sure they have a voice, ....NAMBLA,...sure, the have a voice.
And I acknowledge those are extremes, but they are accepted/not called out.
Where did all the jobs go? Small and medium-sized businesses are the major source of new job creation, and they are not hiring. Startup businesses, which contribute a fifth of the nation’s new jobs, often can’t even get off the ground. Why?
In a June 30 article in the Wall Street Journal titled “Smaller Businesses Seeking Loans Still Come Up Empty,” Emily Maltby reported that business owners rank access to capital as the most important issue facing them today; and only 17% of smaller businesses said they were able to land needed bank financing. Businesses have to pay for workers and materials before they can get paid for the products they produce, and for that they need bank credit; but they are reporting that their credit lines are being cut. They are being pushed instead into credit card accounts that average 16 percent interest, more than double the rate of the average business loan. It is one of many changes in banking trends that have been very lucrative for Wall Street banks but are killing local businesses.
Why banks aren’t lending is a matter of debate, but the Fed’s decision to pay interest on bank reserves is high on the list of suspects. Bruce Bartlett, writing in the Fiscal Times in July 2010, observed:
Economists are divided on why banks are not lending, but increasingly are focusing on a Fed policy of paying interest on reserves — a policy that began, interestingly enough, on October 9, 2008, at almost exactly the moment when the financial crisis became acute. . .
Historically, the Fed paid banks nothing on required reserves. This was like a tax equivalent to the interest rate banks could have earned if they had been allowed to lend such funds. But in 2006, the Fed requested permission to pay interest on reserves because it believes that it would help control the money supply should inflation reappear.
. . . Many economists believe that the Fed has unwittingly encouraged banks to sit on their cash and not lend it by paying interest on reserves.
At one time, banks collected deposits from their own customers and stored them for their own liquidity needs, using them to back loans and clear outgoing checks. But today banks typically borrow (or “buy”) liquidity, either from other banks, from the money market, or from the commercial paper market. The Fed’s payment of interest on reserves competes with all of these markets for ready-access short-term funds, creating a shortage of the liquidity that banks need to make loans.
By inhibiting interbank lending, the Fed appears to be creating a silent “liquidity squeeze” -- the same sort of thing that brought on the banking crisis of September 2008. According to Jeff Hummel, associate professor of economics at San Jose State University, it could happen again. He warns that paying interest on reserves “may eventually rank with the Fed's doubling of reserve requirements in the 1930s and bringing on the recession of 1937 within the midst of the Great Depression.”
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/why_banks.php
I think it could accomplish some things. If there was third party option that compromised on the issues used to polarize the democratic party and the republican party and all third parties to date, I think the Tea Party and OWS could come together. At its best the two party system has served 1/2 the people once in awhile. And a lot of people in both parties are asked to go with what is most important and swallow a lot of stuff they don't like with it. There has got to be a way to work together for end to this Globalization, FED, support unions, get rid of subsidies and tax loopholes for WellFargo and the like, reduce our dependence on oil, get electric cars, etc. Deregulation messed up the banks, the Tea Party is wrong to think a freemarket will work with big monopolies everywhere. A lot of people are ticked at both parties, we all need to learn to think beyond liberal and conservative and make better choices. The two party system of always being at odds with each other and no one willing to compromise is really not working even on a good day.
I should add that my first username was removed along with all my posts. I did not argue, swear threaten or intimidate anyone. I was not a troll.
I was communicating openly and honestly. So there are those here who desperately want to silence opposing views.
The tea party to me is just a another group of people who want to change things for the better, they have their own way of achieving it. I like some of the views expressed, but not all.
I think the problems with the government, the federal reserve, the international financial system etc etc etc are just so ENORMOUS and complex and intertwined with other issues that it will take a lot of people a lot of time to put right.
I agree there could be some main starting goals here such as:
1/ money out of politics
2/ lobbyists banned from govt
3/ legalize the constitution
4/ end illegal wars
5/ major reform of financial services- banking- wall st
6/ major reform of healthcare insurance-providers- litigation
Just these changes alone would start the process.
I have my own suspicions as to why OWS aren't doing this but at this stage. It could just be controlled opposition or some way to create order out of chaos by the shadow government/ banksters.
I guess i will have to wait and see. I think that's why everyone should stay involved in some way.
So you're a Ron Lawl supporter?
Domestically, and much of his foreign policy I think is great. But he just takes it a little extreme for me. Too isolationist. Back in the early 1900's it would have been fine, not now though.
(And my apologies if your not.)
I respect him. He is a humble man and a statesman. People criticize him because he is not the perfect messenger and does not have the perfect message. But who amongst us is perfect?
If I look at the so called "public servants" who are in office, there are not many who aren't egomaniacs, power hungry control freaks or narcissists.
P.aul deserves to be heard and I think he has truly tried his best in a shockingly corrupt government. I think he wants diplomacy first and that is just good policy. I don't know everything about him but his thinking about war is more aligned with my own.
The complete horror of war is now palatable to most Americans because the corporate controlled media has shaped it into small bite size pieces and incrementally fed it to society. We are losing our humanity by ignoring the terrible tragedy's that affect ordinary families who just happen to live in another country. Accepting that we can just bomb countries into the 17 century without any repercussions or blow-back is naive and short sighted.
That said. No one man can make the systemic changes required to reset what has gone so wrong in America. I have read views and policies from people many different backgrounds and beliefs.
Before asking OWS' accomplishment, it seems fair to ask our government and Congress' accomplishment first. After all, OWS is not even 2 month old. But for sure, the number of supporters are growing. Definitely Ohio speical election's vicotry has something to do with OWS influence since Sept. Same as Mississipi's victory. OWS has been raising people awareness on social issues and the issues they did not pay attention too. It takes time to education and bring attention to the public because most of them I hate to say either lazy to study issues or too busy and cozy with their little so call life style or simply ignorant. I know this for sure since I've been involved in voter registration effort for so long and I face and talk to the public often time.
Sorry. Go back and read your comment. First, you're speculating that OWS had a hand in Ohio and Mississippi? If you're going to claim that, can I claim that OWS had a hand in giving the House/Senate/Governorship to the Tea-Party/Republicans?
Again, the non=answer of the OWS regulars is tiresome.
"OWS has been raising people awareness on social issues and the issues they did not pay attention too. "
I gave a dollar to a homeless woman on Thursday, she gave me a flier. She raised my awareness on an issue." Does this count as a victory?
"It takes time to education"
Oh dear....
I guess you already made up your mind not to support OWS anyway. I don't see you would love any answers from any of us. Yes, it takes time to educate people. At this moment of reading this, I clearly know my answer is right ;-) BTW, it seems to me you are definitely interested knowing who and where the leaders are and who are doing what to organize such a big movement. This time people got smart because THEY and the media CANNOT target if there is no leader, because we are all leaders and we are trying rescure ourselves from the disaster that now Greece is facing.
You need not to be tired by OWS if you don't want to. Yes, OWS has been at least raising my awareness of not supporting big banks, and I did transferred my $$$ to credit unions and local communty banks. Rather than giving a dollar to a homeless, you got any better idea of how this person became a homeless and what the solution to reduce homless people on the streets? I guess jobs can help, not the jobs in China or India can help though. BTW, how are those self claimed job creators doing? Busying creating jobs for other poor countries so they can make the utmost profits. Non-answer of OWS? I think OWS demands so far I can see clearly. Because of OWS movement, now 6 senators already formed a committee working on reversing that court decision a corporate is a person bullshit he-corp can contribute as much $$$ as he-corp wants to any politician. No, you cannot cliam that OWS gives a helping hand to Tea Party or Reeps as survey of OWS says only 30 more or less percent indentified as Dems, almost 70% said they are Independents.
They made the #1 troll forum of the year!
People have very big dreams-they want to uproot evil,they want to remove unhappiness,they want to remove crime altogether in all spheres of life,they want to end wars,they want to end deprivation and they want to do more good deeds.They do it even without having any specific leader that succeeded in that which is an achievement.
OWS has also built a large and interconnected following and helped to mobilize organized labor. Neither are small accomplishments. Good night all!
G'night HitGirl. That recipe must be damn good.
I would like to propose the following to make this worth while.
Do the following and encourage others.
-Buy American even if its a couple dollars more. This is the most important message.
-Organize peaceful demonstrations outside prominent retailers. To encourage them promote a American made alternative for every product they carry. Retailers have a lot of options on in store placement and promotion so vote with your dollars and protest if they are not visibly supporting America.
-Spread the word. If this movement only did one thing. Keeping American dollars in America then we would solve our current crisis.
This grass roots movement can make a change one person at a time and one dollar at a time.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-war-with-america-was-won-before-the-first-shot
The OWS movement has definitely set new standards, for disease and crime in a limited space and time.
No......
The only accomplishment so far is ........ bringing lots of losers together to camp in public parks.
People who ordinarily would never have met are now doing drugs together ... defecating and urinating in public together ... raping and sexually assaulting other people together ... committing acts of violence and property damage together ... and basically engaging in antisocial and thug-like activities together.
So OWS has been a HUGE success in bringing together the dregs, miscreants, and all around mentally disturbed of society together under one umbrella.
OWS has been like the "LinkedIn" of the mentally disturbed and losers of society.
In that aspect, OWS has been a success.
RicoSuave,
Do you have anything else to say other than spreading your generalizations all through these threads about how bad and horrible the OWS movement is?
Have you ever had anything constructive to say?
And, last, then why are here? (I think many here would like to know this)
Yeah .... In the early days of the movement I had constructive things to say.
There is nothing constructive to say any longer.
This movement has devolved down to the worst dregs of society. It is nothing anymore but a mob of criminals and thugs waiting to create trouble just for the sake of creating trouble.
That is what most of these dirty encampments have become.
Denying these facts makes you a liar or delusional.
Yeah, but I don't remember you ever having anything good to say. I been around these parts, so I do defer. I don't think you ever supported the movement.
What did you do for OWS?
I was sympathetic to some of the aspects of the movement in the beginning. Maybe you just haven't been here long enough. Maybe you just don't remember anyone who posted sympathetic things. You probably only remember things you disagree with.
But .... All of that now seems long in the past. The movement has devolved so far, it is not the same movement it was even on October 1st. Not even the same movement it was on October 15th.
It is now nothing other than a bunch of filthy encampments of lawless rabble and thugs. The movement even now has a "body count" where people are dying from drug overdoses and some guy was shot and killed at the Oakland encampment over an argument regarding a bag of weed.
Whatever this movement started out as ..... it is no longer that thing.
It is now an uncontrollable mob of rabble and I blame that on the assholes who wanted to keep this as a "leaderless" movement. The leaders of this movement are now the rabble, the drug dealers, the violent troublemakers.
OWS did that to itself and that is how it will be remembered.
Well, that is actually the beauty of this movement. They act from consensus, and they have no leader by intention. This actually is a very smart strategy.
Strong leaders can destroy movements and for the opposing forces it gives them an easy mark.
The biggest accomplishment is shitting in public parks. That's natural fertilizer that was sorely needed. It's the green thing.
Plus people got laid. There was a huge spike in tent sales, helping the economy.