Forum Post: Can America wait for the Greens?
Posted 10 years ago on May 27, 2013, 6:30 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8310)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The 1% utilize the TEA Party to put pressure on the GOP to do their will, the left and OWS are diverted into Green Party bullshit and made ineffective, so the 1% wins, any questions?
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/349378/return-tea-party
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/05/27/gop-struggles-with-tea-partys-squawking-wacko-birds/
Will this shut you up once and for all:
http://my.firedoglake.com/jest/2012/08/27/debunking-pathological-myths-of-the-2000-election-part-2-democrat-defections-to-bush-blue-dogs-bush-democrats-caused-gore-to-lose-fl/
You know the answer to that, heheh. I mean, all he has to do is Google it and find out the truth. That's what I did when the subject came up last year before the election. 'Facts' is only interested in facts that don't contradict any facts that 'Facts' assumes are facts. In fact, the fact is, 'Facts' is woefully short of any real facts in this matter.
My guess is, he'll be voting for Hillary in 2016. 'Nuff said.
And thats A FACT!! :)
And it looks like I hit a nerve, too, heheheh. Downvoted for stating a fact.
You are living with your head up your ass if you believe that Nader couldn't have connived 1% of the people who voted for him to vote for Gore instead, if he had there would have been no Iraq War, sure Republicans could have put Gore over the top too, everyone who didn't vote for Gore is to blame for the Iraq War and the debt not being paid in full by 2010, but there is a special evil in those that claim to support the 99% while working their asses off to help the minions of the 1% hold power.
If I told you which dumb shit was going to be bombing 8 countries at a time back in 08 you would have said "Thats why we cant vote for McCain!! Obama will end all this nonsense!!"
And here we are, bombing all over.
And there you are, with ass up your head as usual. Shocked that your idiotic idea of a democracy isnt working.
"I cant imagine why people who whore out to wall st don then stand up to wall street.... dur dur dur...."
You deign reality it is the only way you can push your crap and practice you fucking politics you are just a political hack more interested in helping the fucking Greens than helping the country or the 99%. You, like Nader, care nothing for the country you only want to inflate your own ego.
[Removed]
So now you're wishing you had been able to get "bomb, bomb, Iran; McCain" into the White House?
I suppose you will helping the GOP as usual, by diverting needed resources away from the battle.
The battle is us vs them you stupid shit, not D vs R.
Please go get involved with the Dems before you slobber all over them. At least have some reference to point to.
I wonder how others involved in the movement feel about your constant refrain of "go away, I don't like what you say" it seems to me to be the very antithesis of OWS.
If you are unwilling to do something about who is writing the policies isn't complaining about them just bitching?
oh yeah we've been over that as well, you don't want to change things just bitch about them
Why don't you google "political endorsements" and honestly consider what an endorsement from Nader might have done to keep Bush from the White House and preventing the Iraq War, then it all depends on if you really think the war was bad or are you just using it for your own purpose in which case you are a monster worse than Bush. oh and that's a FACT.
I have a better idea. Why don't you Google 'PNAC' and check out this link, especially the shit your hero Clinton (a DEMOCRAT, in case it slipped your mind) did while in office:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_crisis_timeline_1997-2000
If you think having a Democrat in the White House would have prevented the so-called Iraq War, you're woefully naive. Now quit wasting our time with this partisan bullshit and ancient history. I find it almost unbelievable you're on this forum still bitching about the 2000 election. Jeez, how fucking ridiculous.
People walking around saying well it's not my fault, it isn't my responsibility to keep a monster from the White House, but you see in a democracy it is.
It's stupid fucks like you that forget yesterday like a FOX NEWS viewer that keeps us falling for the same old bullshit, like the the Greens,
I see you are a HARD CORE supporter of the BUSH policies and so very damn glad Gore didn't win, well good for you, you 1% loving son of a bitch.
You're a blithering idiot, facts. I didn't vote in the 2000 election and don't really give a fuck about Nader. Let me guess, you voted for Clinton twice (NAFTA, Glass-Steagall repeal) and Obama twice. To anyone that's not completely blind and/or stupid, Obama's nothing but a continuation of Bush policies.
So, I see you're a HARD CORE supporter of the BUSH policies and perfectly content with the evisceration of the middle-class and complete destruction of the Bill of Rights. Well, good for you, you 1%-loving piece of shit.
Now, don't bother me again with you're partisan delusions. I won't be bumping this worthless thread again.
A lot of people who don't give a fuck about the country don't vote.
I also voted for Gore and Kerry proving that YOU not me are the GOP supporter, you and others like you enabled Bush to do what he did and you work every day to enable the next Bush.
the current government is a lame duck
and yet if they pass a law we must follow it, if it starts a war people will still die, even lame ducks write and create policy, too many Americans are discouraged from being involved because so many spread hopeless thoughts people think nothing can be done because so many say "they are all the same" the people who say these things instead of talking about how things can be made better with the tools we have at hand if only we will vote to remove Republicans from office, the people who vote for Republicans and the people who say "they are all the same" together work to prevent any change, so people do get discouraged
when the government starts addressing serving the people
the people will become involved
and when I win the lottery I will be happy...
From what I see you don't give a fuck about the country either.
Factsy stated; (quote) From what I see you don't give a fuck about the country either. (unquote)
Thanks for your admission.
I'm more concerned with the world
And I. Can't believe how this place has devolved.
too bad you're not concerned enough to help keep the GOP from power in America, they tend to fuck the world up
since I quit my military job, life has been meager
He doesn't care about Nader nor the country, and you and other political hacks like you and your lying conniving ass are the reason we are in this mess and can't see a way out because you keep throwing shit in people's eyes.
What the fuck does this have to do with running people in the primaries?
I see you are still trying to rewrite history, have you seen the study showing where Hitler was really a friend to the Jews?
What a bunch of horse shit Nader got 100,000 in FL to vote for him you really think he couldn't have convinced a thousand of those people to vote for Gore? I can't believe Green Party idiots are still trying to fight this one.
What about Gore convincing the idiot Dems to vote him and not that disaster Bush?
That establishment hack Gore lost to another establishment hack Bush.
You all fucked it up for Nader, and continue to do so for every decent candidate that runs. Period.
And then you dumb fucks wonder why nothing changes.
He did his best but did YOU did Nader?
Nothing changes because stupid fucks like you keep the GOP alive.
Hi did his best.
What a pathetic answer. That sums up the ability to lead in the Dems and Reps perfectly.
We all can only do our best, did you do all you could to help Gore, did Nader?
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Then shut up and get over to the Dem office in Phoenix already.
you spend a lot of time telling people to shut up do you? Have thought about going about it the other way around?
OPT you are among the most diligent supporters of the TEA Party does it really worry you that OWS might do the same thing they do and get involved in the primaries?
That scares the shit out of the 1% doesn't it?
Thats pretty funny.
This "if you arent this, then you're that" thought process that so many of you older posters are suffering from is the very mindset that has caused this entire mess.
Its really more of a "us vs them" problem.
they can't help they have sheeple disorder. after over a year and a half of ows they still don't get it. the democrats are in on it to you fucking morons.
Check this out. We were going to do a Sheeple March during the RNC. The plan was to get some sheep, and then make sheep helmets, and then have them lead us down Kennedy Blvd towards the convention.
But when we started looking for farmers to come out, or to rent their sheep, we found that sheep actually arent easily led. They dont really like to listen, hence the need for the sheep dogs that bite them and shit to get them to herd.
So in a sense, calling the people "sheep" is actually a huge insult. To the sheep!! haha :)
"To the sheep." heheheh. How very true. Considering how easily led these people are, they're actually the opposite of sheep.
Which is why we must vote principal not party.
What principals?
Ones that officials are required to respect by law.
If we do this under the premise of **our first right", to alter or abolish abusive government, ART5, with preparatory amendment and only vote for politicians that support preparatory amendment, we shall prevail, big time.
Nader nitwits
Living the in a dream
Standing in the Pumpkin Patch
Cooking up a scheme
Even Charlie Brown ain’t that naive
Laughing so hard he blew snot on his sleeve
As a top producer he’s got nothing to fear
His peeps were there to take care of that smear
The one percent couldn't have it better
O W S throwing votes in the shredder.
Voting is a scam and it's got you fooled. You can't say anyone got any number of votes. Even if 100% of us voted for the same person, it would be a 51-49 split. The future is decided. Nothing you can do.
Why do you even brother to get out of bed?
Just to vote, or plan my voting strategy.
The 1% love citizens like you.
How do you know what they like? Do you know zem? To zey call you at home?
A mind conditioned to attempt to operate with cognitive distortions. All or nothing thinking and over generalization.
The intentions are good, but the dynamics of fact are skewed.
Age probably doesn't mean much in this area. Social conditioning has a large influence, which is how cognitive distortions became so common AND invisible.
Nader nitwits
Living the in a dream
Standing in the Pumpkin Patch
Cooking up a scheme
Even Charlie Brown ain’t that naive
Laughing so hard he blew snot on his sleeve
As a top producer he’s got nothing to fear
His peeps were there to take care of that smear
The one percent couldn't have it better
O W S throwing votes in the shredder.
The Green party in my state Virginia is very introverted; essentially making them politically ineffective. Greens first of all need to stop thinking about inter-party politics, and start focusing beyond themselves.
They need to do the math, and quit running candidates for national offices for a moment, and start building movements from the bottoms up in local elections, and other theaters.
I think that people build political parties for their own reasons, I think right now we need people willing to do what is needed to save America from the coming Monarchy that the 1% and haters of the "death tax" are establishing here and throughout the world. The building of political parties is an exercise in ego, it is true that today we need to kill one in self defense, but that's an entirely different thing.
Yes I get that sense also.
Actually, the Green Party was done when they decided to team up with the Libertopians. Kind of like how the Nation was done when they decided to write a letter to Nadar.
HERETIC! heretic! heretic!
The Green Party has some good people & some good ideas but running candidates hurts progressive causes.
Sadly, some Greens are very blind to this fact .
I pointed out that if Nader had not run,
Florida would have elected Gore
If Florida elected Gore, we would not have had the Iraq war, or Rove, or Cheney, or tp
but just like the catholics, centuries ago, would not believe the math & science that proved the earth was not the center of the universe because their god-book told them otherwise. but just like the protestants, today, would not believe the math & science that proved the earth is billions of years old because their god-book told them otherwise -
the Greens would not believe their god-Nader led America down that path
now for the fun: If you & your brother had enough money to create a movement that would do your bidding & take over a major political party.
But the "other" party was an obstacle to you & your brother; and they were too diverse and reasoning to be dupped into lemminghood,
what about the advantages of pushing people into movements
( old Green and new OWS ) that will splinter and divert the progressive movement?
Here's your election results. Results, mind you, that have about 45% of the total eligible population voting.
You have to be one ignorant poster to claim a candidate ruined your candidate when over HALF the population didnt even bother to come out FOR ANY OF THEM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Florida,_2000
some truths are inconvenient,
those who refuse to learn from history are useless pieces of shit like you...
if Nader had supported Gore there would have been no Iraq war
How poetic.
I would love to meet you someday.
No comment on the 55% that didnt vote for any of em? Hmmmm.....
your 55% is mythical for the most part the real number is more like 30% and unlike you I have actually spoken to many of those people and many of them have no love at all for the Greens nor do they long for this third way for the most part they just don't give a shit, like people who vote third party they just don't think it matters because of people running around telling lies like Nader saying there isn't a difference when anybody with a brain knows there are huge differences in the two parties, anybody with a brain knows the GOP has gone insane, even Bob Dole can see that, the Dems do get away with a lot of crap because the GOP is insane and people can have no real choice until it has been taken out back and shot like a sick dog
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/felon-voting-rights_n_1924535.html
Your numbers are fucked. Someone who is so pro establishment should have done at least a shred of campaigning and be able to speak to the real numbers.
You obviously arent real about defeating Republicans or you would understand vote totals a bit better.
do you even look at your links? am I not a professional pol like you so I don't got interns running around pulling up pointless links, still your 55% number is fucked how about a link that supports that?
What's the point of being divisive?
Haven't we already established a hundred times that we are in the middle of a class war? A war between those who think they are entitled to something that the rest of us miss out on?
Why are you still obfuscating on the classist racist phukk side of the argument?
When will I see you post a comment to those who attack Obama about their "divisive" behavior?
You are just a fucking Obama hater who loves the GOP and the 1%
Then you're clearly not reading my posts.
I'd like to see how you've come to that verbose conclusion, BTW.
That would take some extraordinary stretches of the imagination.
A person is known by their deeds, your deeds help to elect Republicans. You are among the most divisive of posters with your constant attacks on others that support unions and higher wages. I remember when you informed me of your intent to hunt down the "puppies" on the site and give them a good beat down. It is those that constantly attack other liberals that are being divisive.
Theres nothing worse than someone who needs teh Democrats to fix every problem in the country and doesnt even campaign with em.
a confession?
I do think that we should unite and support those that address wealth and climate for instance Nader should have united behind our best chance to beat Bush but instead he helped to put Bush in the White House, with his divisive third party run, we should all unite and do all we can to support whoever has the best chance of beating the Republican that's what I have been saying since day one.
And that pandering is what has caused this mess. Great job boomers.
Pandering? Really that's your Big Bitch? Do you have any ideal how lopsided the economic situation is in this country, and you worry about pandering? Tell me just how big is your ego? Does it have its own zip code?
Keep pandering to people who dont care for you.
Im sure some decade it will pay off.
Thankyou for placing that big target right on your face.
Bring it on Bitch!
you are making suppositions. i predict we still would have gone to war in afghanistan and the middle east. just as we are going to be going to war in syria shortly under a democrat. yes, some truths are very, very, very inconvenient.
You suspect? Why would Gore have gone to war in Iraq pray tell? why would he have care about Halliburton's profits? I suspect you are full of bullshit.
Do you also suspect that Gore would have drilled for oil in the Alaskan wilderness?
The enemy of my enemy is my friend, you are a great friend to the GOP.
If he wasnt a corporate whore he wouldnt have sat by idle while Glass Steagall and NAFTA were implemented and hence crushed unions.
If McCain were bombing Mali, Yemen, Somolia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Uganda and creating proxi wars in Syria, you would saying the same thing about "if Obama were elected".
You need to wake the hell up to the bullshit you have been fed your entire life and realize it was all a lie.
Hey if you prefer the policies of George Bush just say so...
I dont prefer the policies of either of em you fascist puke.
well you spend a lot of time electing Republicans for a someone that claims to not like their policies
If all the votes were counted, regardless of Nader, Gore wins! And if Gore was POTUS we would have avoided: 9-11, the "War on Terror," Enronning America, Cheney's "shadow work," a Regent U alumni sleeper-celled DOJ; reckless, rampant and detrimental deregulations (OSHA, FTC, FEC, FCC, EPA, FDA... ETC.); massive foreclosure fraud and home loss; massive pension, savings and wealth losses; WS Heist/Inside Job Robbery, Citizens United; the 2010 Tea Party invasion of local, state and federal government and eventual Rating Downturn; Congressional gridlock, SCOTUS insanity, massive homelessness and suicide, the national descent to third world status while the nation's wealth is hoarded by a greed-addled few in the 1%, and the general resumption of the Ronney RayGun legacy of infamy:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/1THE_REAGAN_YEARs.htm#reaganpage
The point of my postings is that we can no longer bicker among ourselves we must unite behind whichever candidate can beat the Republican and keep them from taking office it really is the only chance the 99% have. I'm not sure you pointed out that the Federal Government would be debt free by now if we had counted all the votes in FL, every state wide recount had Gore winning FL, which is what the GOP went to court to get.
Shockingly to "some," democracy is a euphemism for "bickering," or vice versa for RepubliCon Cultists and anarchists. So embrace the bickering, improve it, master it, teach and learn from it; this is how democracy works and democracy is our most awesome weapon against tyranny and exploitation. I suspect the "bickering" you refer to is really just sliming and sophistry by trolls, miscreants and simps who just want to distract and disrupt.
Unfortunately, democracy requires participation. While "bickering" may seem unpleasant, it gets a bad rap, cuz without the ability to bicker we are REALLY FUCKED! So if we 99% want to win this Class War, I heard this one phrase that might rally and encourage a winning strategy: "Unite and Win!"
Countries aren't businesses so debt is a good thing. But Bush-Cheney and the Con Cult, as tools of the 1%, presided over the greatest transfer of wealth from the world to a greed-addled few in the 1%, in world history.
While democracy is our awesome weapon, negligence (for what ever reason) is our Achilles heel. Which is why the 1% encourages and propagandizes the futility of democracy and, most unfortunately, why we hear so often (from each other) that government, politics and politicians are too corrupt, too shilly, too rich, too elite, too "bickery," too (enter icky adjective Du Jour) to engage or participate in. And so it is our (99%) lack of engagement and participation in our government, politics, citizenry and (our only real weapon) democracy THAT HAS US WHERE WE ARE! Time to wake up some sleepyheads. Time to stop helping the 1%.
bickering and backbiting can be damaging and what is maybe worst, is it takes energy away from the real fight, I see many thoughtful writers spending their time bemoaning the lack of perfection in the dems, while the Rs they ignore and thus enable...
Yes, remember my "Planet Perfection" post?
Perfection is a hoax to get the Unicorn Chasers like TM (where'd he go?) and Odin, etc. chasing their tales and sabotaging real solutions like Voter Turnout and Instant Runoff Voting and Unity.
The Reich (GOP, Libertarians, Cons) truly believe the End justifies any Means. And it ends up being Corporatocracy.
Time to toughen up and get together and fight back in the Class War we are losing. http://occupywallst.org/forum/ed-snowden-the-spy-industrys-bernie-madoff-class-w/
Perhaps knowing that these Private Spy Contractors are working with Corporations to Sabotage Public Protest Organizations [ like Occupy Wall Street ] to defuse public descent will get some outraged people organized and motivated!
you are assuming those who voted for nadar like myself would have voted for gore that is simply not the case. i was in on the duopoly back then and i would not have voted for either bush or gore.
So there is no way that Nader could have convinced you to vote for Gore? Even if the Greens didn't run a candidate and supported Gore instead? Really there was no way you could have been convinced of reality? Are you really that sure? I'll take your word for it but there is no way that you will convince me at least 5 or 10 percent that voted for Nader and Greens couldn't have been convinced if the Greens gave a shit about the country, but since they don't we will never know.
Over half the nation didnt vote for ANY of them....
If you had a brain, you would realize your blaming and nonsense doesnt even make sense.
Gore and Bush were two world class idiots.
[Removed]
DKAtoday and you are always full of snark remarks and disrespect for the other users on this forum. That's not how to build a community.
Sorry - But:
Stomping on misinformation peddlers like you - attackers of the site and attackers of individuals who are truly here in support of OWS/Occupy for a healthy world for all.
Is a good thing to do.
Hi Mr. Puppet...............................:)
Bots and puppets destroy community wherever they've been used, and use them you do.
Along with the insults you've used so very, very often.
So what logical fallacies would those be?
Please don't feign innocence Mr. Puppet.
Because you are not.
Blaming Nader for a failed Gore
Is like blaming Bush for the Iraq War.
Any way you count it, it was over 50% voted in 2012, not that you make any real point about those that didn't vote, but just another example of how your purpose here is to spread lies not truth.
http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html
Their felon count is low, their noncitizen is low, and their counting duel citizenships is to blatantly skew..
The main goal of any power structure is to maintain faith. Once thats not there, it gets real real quick.
You think they may have a reason to keep that number over 50%?
What's the main goal of the many fucking lies you tell?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/instant-runoff-voting-can-and-should-we-do-it/
it is clear to any who care to look that we must focus on defeating the GOP in order to advance the 99%
people who make real money tend to favor real influence over the real world
The ego is the enemy.
In other words people who can see the problem often feel there are much better solutions than the ones that we can achieve in the near term. There may well be better answers but it is the ego that convinces people to fight for their perfect answer rather than sacrificing their time and energy in an effort to actually make things better.
people like you are the prime reason for american mediocrity.
The GOP welcomes your support and thanks you for all you do.
yeah, the gop. you really are a fucking moron. they tremble in fear because of people like me so do democrats.
Yeah Bush trembled though eight years in the White House because of people like you, and Nader.
trust me they have many sleepless nights thinking about people like me.
Celebrating their victories after you have led the lambs to the third party alter for slaughter maybe.
people like me are going to be the only ones between the jack boot and your throat soon enough. people like me are the ones capable of building a civilization and a society from the ground up. realize you are just fodder for them. you think you are in the system? you ain't shit.
ahhh shaking your fists at windmills, while the 1% laugh their asses off at your nativity
i am che, i am trotsky, i am robespierre. they wet their beds at night at the thought of me walking in the room.
You are the pied piper of the 1% leading the discontent over the cliff of third party oblivion, while the true defenders of the 99% can see their enemy clearly in their sights and are advancing on them with every election.
yeah OKAY keep your delusions.
factsrfun - Are you as shocked as I was when governor finger stood up to the AZ legislature ???
Not really we have to balance and, like KY, we may hate the government but we love their money.
yes- how obvious - how did I not see that
but then why would the AZ legislators see that too?
They have had a super majority so long that they are becoming bat shit crazy, not that it's a reach for them, but we have had governors that put hits out on people so they mostly stick to doing favors for their buddies and leave running the state to the governor.
YeeHa!, (now if only I can get my Karma score frozen here)
As in:
What's your ten? 420.
David, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Charlie, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Grover, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Reince can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
David, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Charlie, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Grover, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Reince can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
David, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Charlie, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Grover, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Reince can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
David, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Charlie, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Grover, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Reince can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
David, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Charlie, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Grover, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Reince can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
David, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Charlie, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Grover, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Reince can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
David, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Charlie, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Grover, can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
Reince can you wait for the Greens?
YES!
..............................................................CAN YOU WAIT FOR THE GREENS?
Instant Runoff Voting ~ Can and Should We Do it??
instantrunoff.com
The Basics
Instant runoff voting (IRV) is a ranked choice voting system for single-winner elections that, in a single round of counting, accomplishes the goal of a two-round runoff election. Also called ranked choice voting, preferential voting, majority voting and the alternative vote, IRV avoids the undemocratic outcomes of plurality voting that occur when so-called "spoilers" split the majority vote. By allowing voters to rank candidates in order of preference, IRV enables voters to vote their hopes instead of their fears, upholds the principle of majority rule and avoids the expenses and campaign spending associated with two rounds of voting.
MORE: http://occupywallst.org/forum/instant-runoff-voting-can-and-should-we-do-it/
Yes and yes.
We had a type of this on the ballot here in 2012 an open primary all candidates on one ballot and the top two would run in general, I liked it because people could safely vote for who ever in the primary then make sure the Republican didn't win in Nov. but all the parties were against it, even the Greens, they are all about seeing their name on a ballot. I voted for it but only got 40% or so.
All change faces resistance.
IRV seems like a great idea, but I thought the flat-tax push in the 80s sounded like a good idea until I found out it favored the rich and hurt everybody else.
I think I caught a piece of an argument against IRV by Thom Hartmann, did you catch it?
Here is a post by him on IRV:
Institute "instant runoff" voting, to make minority parties viable
Most democracies in the world today have healthy multiparty systems, but older ones (such as America and the UK) don't. The reason is simple: the idea of proportional representation hadn't been conceived when the older democracies were formed.
It wasn't until the 1840s that John Stuart Mill first wrote about it, which is why most democracies formed after 1850 have healthy multiparty systems that represent a broad range of political opinions. Older democracies are usually two-party states.
Knowing that there was a deficiency in the American system, James Madison wrote long letters and articles begging America's politicians not to form political parties, but it was all for naught. By the late 1790s, the Democratic Republicans had split off from the Federalists and we've had a two-party system in the United States ever since.
The problem is that we have winner-take-all elections. If more than two candidates run, it's possible for a candidate to take the seat with fewer than a majority of the votes--and, as Madison noted, then the people are represented by a candidate whose opinions reflect only a minority of Americans. (A good example was the presidential election of 2000, in which Bush got three million fewer votes than his opposition, Gore and Nader.)
(CONTINUED:) http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2004/01/what-would-jefferson-do-institute-instant-runoff-voting#comments
Instant Runoff Voting: Power to the Voters
AlterNet / By Steven Hill, Rob Richie | February 12, 2003 |
When the presidency can be won by 527 votes in a nation of 300 million, something needs to be changed. Around the country, people are working to fix a wounded electoral system.
Spurred by the memory of Ralph Nader spoiling Al Gore's election, by other third party threats to major party incumbents and by expensive runoff contests, instant runoff voting (IRV) has moved to the top of major parties' reform agenda in several states. At the same time, a growing number of social change activists are supporting IRV as a means to bring new ideas and energy into electoral politics resulting in its adoption in cities like San Francisco and on campuses like the Universities of Maryland and Illinois.
(CONTINUED:) http://www.alternet.org/story/15186/instant_runoff_voting%3A_power_to_the_voters
The important lesson we learn from nitwit Nader is that the third party path is simply not possible as its very success breeds failure until the monster is removed, in areas of the far northeast the GOP is so weak that there are now two independent senators and both are left of the Ds.
The flat tax is a good ideal as long as we start with Social Security tax, first dollar to last all forms of income, and provide a reasonable personnel deduction for the basic cost of living, say $20,000 to $50,000 so the first 20 to 50 thousand or so would be to cover the basic living expense then we tax the rest at a flat rate for all forms.
The voting change if the third parties had supported it instead of feeding their egos wanting their spot on the ballot more than they wanted change.