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Forum Post: Bill Moyers: We’d All Be Packing Heat If the NRA Had Its Way

Posted 1 year ago on Jan. 6, 2013, 11:30 a.m. EST by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR
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Bill Moyers: We’d All Be Packing Heat If the NRA Had Its Way

Even life and death are measured by profit margins, so the organization's cure for gun violence shouldn't surprise.

January 4, 2013 |

From BillMoyers.com:

We wrote and spoke about guns just a few days before Christmas, following the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut. So did Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association. His now infamous, “no questions” press conference was the most stunning, cockeyed one-man show since Clint Eastwood addressed that empty chair at the Republican National Convention.“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” he pronounced.

LaPierre might well have plagiarized his vision of a wholly armed nation from another “man of the people” of 40 years ago, the protagonist in the famous sit-com “All in the Family.” On a 1972 episode, when a local TV station comes out in favor of gun control, Archie Bunker hits the airwaves with an editorial rebuttal:

Good evening, everybody. This here is Archie Bunker of 704 Hauser Street, veteran of the big war, speaking on behalf of guns for everybody. Now, question: what was the first thing that the Communists done when they took over Russia? Answer: gun control. And there’s a lot of people in this country want to do the same thing to us here in a kind of conspiracy, see. You take your big international bankers, they want to — whaddya call — masticate the people of this here nation like puppets on the wing, and then when they get their guns, turn us over to the Commies … Now I want to talk about another thing that’s on everybody’s minds today, and that’s your stick-ups and your skyjackings, and which, if that were up to me, I could end the skyjackings tomorrow … All you gotta do is arm all your passengers. He ain’t got no more moral superiority there, and he ain’t gonna dare to pull out no rod. And then your airlines, they wouldn’t have to search the passengers on the ground no more, they just pass out the pistols at the beginning of the trip, and they just pick them up at the end! Case closed.

Case closed. Except that Archie Bunker’s a fictional character created by Norman Lear, who knew better. Not Wayne LaPierre — he’s real and he means business. Big business.

Every time we have another of these mass slayings and speak of gun control, weapon sales go up. And guess what? As journalist Lee Fang reports in The Nation, “For every gun or package of ammunition sold at participating stores, a dollar is donated to the NRA.” Customers can make a contribution at the point of purchase or the gun companies make an automatic donation every time the cash register rings. Last year, just one of those merchants of death, Midway USA, used one of these NRA programs to give the gun lobby a million dollars.

So naturally, in a country where even life and death are measured by the profit margin, the cure for gun violence is, yes, more guns! Bigger profits. Never mind that just before LaPierre spoke, three were shot and killed outside Altoona, Pennsylvania. Or that early on Christmas Eve morning, in Webster, New York, two volunteer firemen were called to the scene of a fire, then executed by an ex-con who allegedly set the blaze and murdered them with the same kind of assault rifle used against those school kids and their teachers in Newtown. Or that on New Year’s Eve, in Sacramento, California, reportedly in a fight over a spilled drink, a 22-year-old opened fire in a bar, killing two and wounding two others. In fact, according to Slate.com and the Twitter feed @GunDeaths, at this writing, in just those few weeks since the Newtown slaughter of the innocent, more than 400 have died from guns in America. That should boost the last quarter profit margins. Not surprising, the merchants of death are experiencing a Happy New Year.

We have to keep talking about this, because Wayne LaPierre and the NRA will keep talking and they are insidious and powerful predators. Have you seen the reports in both the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) and the Washington Post of how, 16 years ago, the NRA managed to get Congress to pull funding on gun violence studies at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention? Since then, JAMA reports, “at least 427,000 people have died of gunshot wounds in the United States, including more than 165,000 who were victims of homicide. To put these numbers in context, during the same time period, 4,586 Americans lost their lives in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan.”

Last year, Congress stopped the National Institutes of Health from spending any money that might be construed as advocating or promoting gun control. There’s even a section that was snuck into President Obama’s Affordable Care Act that prevents doctors from collecting information on their patients’ gun use. Denise Dowd, an emergency-care physician in Kansas City and adviser on firearms issues to the American Academy of Pediatrics, told the Post, “This illustrates the fact that the NRA has insinuated themselves into the small crevices of anything they can to do anything in their power to prohibit sensible gun-safety measures.”

As Wayne LaPierre’s brazen call for an armed populace makes clear, the odds don’t favor common sense. Several members of the new Congress are reintroducing bills that would change the gun laws and USA Today reports that the White House is “likely” to issue its recommendations January 15, but there are always those legislators willing to do the gun lobby’s bidding as they profess their love of the Second Amendment and wait like hungry house pets for the next NRA campaign donation.

Every American packing heat is a frightening vision of our future. It doesn’t have to be, if only we stop and think. That’s what a fellow named Frank James did. He stopped, thought — and changed directions. A pawn shop owner in Seminole, Florida, whose youngest child is six, Frank James told a local ABC station he has decided to stop selling guns.

“It’ll probably cause my business to go out of business because it was a big part of it, but I just couldn’t live with myself,” he said.” I thought, wow, this is crazy. As a gun dealer myself, I’m like, yes, we need more gun control. Guns are getting into the wrong hands of the wrong people.” He also said, “I’m not going to be a part of it anymore. Conscience wins over making money.”

Thank you, Mr. James.

Veteran journalist Bill Moyers is the host of “Moyers & Company,” airing weekly on public television. Check your local listings. More at www.billmoyers.com

Michael Winship is senior writing fellow at Demos and a senior writer of the new series, Moyers & Company, airing on public television.

168 Comments

168 Comments


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[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Having been mugged at gun point in the fine city of Memphis I can tell you a few things. 1st of all you will not see it coming. That is how it works. They get the drop on you. 2nd of all if they get the drop on you and you are armed you will be likely be shot and/or beaten. I know had I been armed that is what would have likely happened to me instead of losing 120 dollars and a bruised ego and on top of that another gun would be in the hands of the criminally minded. That is just the facts. Talk to others who have been mugged and they will tell you similar tales. I am not opposed to all guns by the way just making a point that gun advocates seem to often ignore.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The multiple gun owner of the Sandy Hook weapons would surly back you up, if she were still alive!

[+] -4 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Hoax, hoax, hoax. Sandy Hook: Huge Hoax and Anti-Gun “Psy Op” http://nsnbc.me/2012/12/28/sandy-hook-huge-hoax-and-anti-gun-psy-op/ .

"As tyranny envelops the land, the main goal of the left-wing is to disarm the population." http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33472.htm . The Nazis are on the march, but you want only the Nazis to have arms. Insane.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Derange RW nut, get back to your FEMA camp!!

[-] -2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

WSmith: "Mustn't look at Sandy Hook anomalies. Anxiety, too much anxiety. Must bury head further in sand. Unsure of self. Worried. Very worried. Maybe I should hide head up *ss. Ah, very warm and quiet in here. Dark too. Can't see truth. Can't handle truth. Yes, MSM liars, whatever you say. . . . But, but, how can I keep drinking the koolaid, with my head up here. Oh, oh. Must have koolaid. Must have koolaid. Worried, very worried." Your life is just full of problems, isn't it?

By all means, don't address issues/anomalies. Call names. Don't grow up on my account.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Back to your FEMA camp deranged RW nut!!

[-] -2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

The prosecution rests.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

OK!

Get your gaggle of nuts and follow the nice men in the white suits. You don't want to miss Charles Bronson week at the FEMA camp!!!

[-] 1 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

Are you one of these?

http://www.lipstickalley.com/f153/paid-right-wing-bloggers-posting-liberal-websites-440072/

You make less sense with every post.

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Are you a mod or a troll?

[-] 1 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

Maybe.

Are you a bot, or a plant, or a sock puppet?

[-] 1 points by KevinPotts (356) 1 year ago

ATTENTION Gun Debaters…Please Read This Entire Article…‘The Riddle of the Gun’ By Sam Harris
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I don't understand the disconnect here. You do realize that we are having this discussion because of the "bloody" gun violence and deaths that we are experiencing NOW. Thousands every year.

I will give you that responsible gun owners are good people and not the problem, for the most part. No one is ignoring them. How many of the Sandy Hook 26 were and would have been good people, maybe even responsible gun owners? Have you forgotten them and the thousands of others every year? They didn't lose a hobby, they lost their lives, shot!

I hope you can discern the difference and importance between a right to a hobby and a right to life.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Scapegoat Hunter - Gun Control

Tuesday January 8, 2013 | The Daily Show with Jon Stewart

Gun rights activists' paranoid fear of a possible dystopic future prevents America from addressing its actual dystopic present.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-january-8-2013/scapegoat-hunter---gun-control

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Fox Guest Compares Gun Safety To Nazi Germany

By Igor Volsky posted from ThinkProgress Justice on Jan 7, 2013 at 8:49 am

Joshua Boston, the Marine who has penned an open letter to Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) to register his opposition to her proposed ban on assault weapons and is being heralded by the right, appeared on Fox News Monday morning and compared gun control efforts to the policies of the Germany’s Third Reich.

Goaded by Fox & Friends host Steve Doocy to argue that the federal government is “going to come after your guns,” Boston likened restrictions on gun ownership to the policies of brutal dictators like Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler. He also called for the repeal of gun-free school zones. Fox News played portions of the interview at least three times during its Monday broadcast. Here is a sample:

DOOCY: I think you, like a lot of people Joshua, are worried that the federal government is going to come after our guns.

BOSTON: It’s something we’ve seen happen time and time again in history, with Stalin. It happened in Cambodia. Then of course the Third Reich. No one saw that coming until it was too late.

DOOCY: Well, of course, this was in the wake of the massacre up at the Newtown elementary school. Do you feel that any changes should be made to the gun laws as they are? I mean, there are 2,000 of them out there right now, in many cases simply not effective.

BOSTON: One change we need to really honesty look at is this idea of a gun-free zone. Essentially all it does is advertise a hunting ground for the predators in our society. It forces people to be disarmed.

Watch it: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/07/1404891/fox-guest-compares-gun-safety-to-nazi-germany/

“You ma’am have overstepped a line that is not your domain,” Boston wrote in his latter to the senator. “I am not your subject,” he continues. “I am the man who keeps you free. I am not your servant. I am the person whom you serve. I am not your peasant.”

Feinstein has pledged to introduce legislation banning the sale, importation, and possession of assault weapons. It will also outlaw big clips, drums, or strips of big bullets. The measure would require registration of existing assault weapons.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/07/1404891/fox-guest-compares-gun-safety-to-nazi-germany/

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

FACT CHECK: Stacks Of Gun Facts

Tired of running into ignorant people who don't know the real facts about gun violence in America? Find the answers here.

As we noted recently, the availability of guns isn't the only factor in America's gun violence problem. It is the component that's been the most lied about though, often through the vast propaganda tools of the lobbying group that is the NRA.

So as a public service, we've collected and corrected some of the most common lies about guns, and provided the correct information, below.

Lie: Mass shootings don't really happen that often. It just seems like it because of the media.

Truth: The number of mass shootings has actually risen significantly over the last 30 years.

Since 1982, there have been 62 mass murders carried out with firearms, across America, where 'mass murder' is defined as a single person killing four or more people in a single incident (other than the killer).

Lie: The assault weapons ban in the U.S. did nothing.

Truth: The assault weapons ban did, in fact, limit unexpected mass killings.

Using the more accurate standard used for "mass killings" used by Mark Follman at Mother Jones, and Princeton researcher Sam Wang - where crimes that involve armed robbery or gang violence are not counted - statistics show the assault weapons ban did make a significant difference. As Wang's research noted, "Since the expiration of the gun ban in 2004, the number of shootings per year has doubled, and the number of victims per year has nearly tripled. Three of the bloodiest four years [since 1980] occurred since the expiration [of the ban]."

Lie: "If there had been someone there [at a massacre site] who was packin', those people would still be alive!"

Truth: Armed civilians do not stop mass shooters. As Mark Follman of Mother Jones notes, "...not one of the 62 mass shootings in the United States over the last 30 years has been stopped this way."

Lie: More guns will actually make us all safer!

Truth: More guns actually mean more murders.

As the Harvard Injury Control Research Center found, where there are more guns - in America and in other, similar rich nations - both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Lie: Gun-loving Americans don't support gun control or gun safety laws.

Truth: In general, responsible gun owners support effective, smart gun safety laws.

According to a poll taken by noted GOP pollster Frank Luntz for the group Mayors against Illegal Guns, and published in Think Progress by Zach Beauchamp, "...gun-owning Americans, including National Rifle Association (NRA) members, overwhelmingly support a raft of common-sense measures typically described as 'gun control.'"

That includes 87 percent of non-NRA gun-owners and 74 percent of NRA gun owners who support requiring criminal background checks on gun owners. 80 percent of non-NRA gun-owners and 79 percent of NRA gun owners also support requiring criminal background checks on gun shop employees.

Lie: Obama is the worst President for gun-loving Americans, ever.

Truth: 2012 has been a record setting year for gun sales.

As of August 1, 2012, there are nearly 130,000 federally licensed firearms dealers in the United States - which means there are more stores selling guns than groceries in the U.S.

EVEN MORE facts on guns, check the links below.

Read more: http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=10652140#ixzz2HMtyGUIl

Read more: http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=10652140#ixzz2HMtOniNc

http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=10652140

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

he isnt talking about gun safety, he's talking about a society being able to defend themselves from the tyranny of govt. he's talking about the 2nd amendment and what it secures.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

OK, David Koresh.

We need defense from YOU CRAZY NUTS!!

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

oh smitty, what a silly boy you are. stupid too !!

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Paranoia Feeding American Gun Culture As gun-makers laugh all the way to the bank.

January 2, 2013 | By Rene Ciria-Cruz

[Can you say "DUPES"?]

The gun has an indelible presence in America’s popular consciousness. The myth-making entertainment industry has embellished and magnified the gun’s prominent role in the narrative of the nation’s founding and rapid expansion across the continent over Indian lands and trackless wilds.

But reverence for history isn’t what’s really driving the soaring rate of gun ownership among Americans.

Today something stronger than the hunting culture or nostalgia for an adventure-filled frontier past is keeping gun fetishism alive -- social paranoia. A dread of unseen threats against one’s personal safety feeds the demand for automatic assault rifles and handguns, much to the delight of obliging firearm manufacturers.

Up to 47 percent of Americans reported owning firearms in 2011, according to the Gallup Poll. Consequently, the U.S. has the highest rate of gun-related homicides among the industrialized countries. Changing these statistics is a formidable challenge.

Widespread anxiety over perceived impending violence explains why there are 89 guns for every 100 American civilians, as reported in last year’s Small Arms Survey; that’s some 270 million guns nationwide, the highest rate of gun ownership in the world.

Many believe the high-caliber handgun or automatic rifle is their best defense against crime. Someone may want to invade your home, rape your wife and kill your children. A gun would enable you to “stand your ground,” many are convinced.

The gun is also a tool for projecting personal power. This function has even spawned an “open-carry” movement that would allow men and women — who no one should try to “mess with” -- to walk around like gunslingers of the old West.

And while no one really believes the United States is in danger of a military invasion by any foreign power, a good many gun worshipers believe that they need to be prepared for a social cataclysm of sorts, like mass unrest or a catastrophe that ultimately leads to widespread looting and depredation.

At its core, then, is a lack of confidence that the state can provide sufficient protection to its citizens. Tied to this is a profound sense of individualism, of a deeply held belief that only the individual, not the community or its laws, is the real guarantor of one’s safety.

Thus, while liberals may share some of these same insecurities, the cult of gun ownership is, as most observers already know, conservative at heart.

Writing in the New York Times, number cruncher Nate Silver draws the link between politics and gun ownership: White Republicans are more likely to own guns than white Democrats; by 2010 gun ownership among Democrats dropped to 22 percent but remained at 50 percent among Republican adults.

In its extreme form, gun worship is xenophobic and racist. Self-proclaimed militias and many so-called doomsday “preppers” fear a creeping United Nations “takeover” of the U.S. They also warn of an impending race war in which one must be prepared to defend one’s home and family against marauding and rapacious black and brown hordes.

This likely explains why whites are more likely to own guns than blacks or Hispanics and why gun ownership is higher among middle class households than poorer ones, according to Silver’s findings. And while most gun-related homicides occur in urban areas, gun ownership is higher in rural and suburban areas.

While owning a gun is indeed as American as cherry pie, it need not remain part of this country’s traditions. Owning a broadsword is not as British as steak and kidney pie, despite the prominent role of bladed weapons in British history.

It is admittedly not going to be easy to erase the prevalent social delusions that fuel gun ownership in America, but stricter laws and regulations can and should start preventing its lethal consequences. The law of the jungle through the proliferation of guns has no place in civilized life.

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

Blah, blah, blah,.................we ( the usa ) have a gun law, it's the 2nd amendment. it's there to protect the citizens from the tyranny of govt. a disarmed people are a citzenry open to fascism.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

It's dubious at best, way outdated and completely unnecessary, obsolete and dangerous.

The American People come before your dangerous hobby!!

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

thwe 2nd amendment simply assures eaxh citizen that they have the tools necessary to defend their life, family and property from agression, whether from an individual or the govt. the constitutional right to own a gun is not a hobby. the constitutional right to own a gun is not outdated, unnecessary, obsolete or dangerous.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

THAT'S exactly why we have to take your fucking guns AWAY!!

For the protection of the American People!!!

We'll give you gun parks, but the guns do leave the premises.

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

Words from a pacifist,..........."Among the many misdeeds of British Rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest". Written by Gandhi in his autobiography, page 446

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

you have not addressed what gandhi, the well know public pacifist, said.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

you still cant refute what gandhi said.

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

Joshua Boston is a patriot.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

In the land of the Fascist and Deranged!

Not this Truth, Justice and American Way, United States!!

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

fascist and deranged? apt description of the dems/libs/progressives.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

First Pettifoggery, now Recrimination, "I know you are, but what am I!"

Rightie MO 101.

Poor sad followers.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

smitty, it's obvious you didnt get your nap today,..........ask mommy to change your diaper.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I love how each side thinks that the other is fascist, when in fact you both are correct!!

What a moronic, divided population.

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

which " side" wants to do away with the 2nd amendment? hint , the same side that is pushing for gun ownership restrictions.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

that's false. Maybe a small few... but there is no "side" pushing any effort to "do away with the 2nd amendment"

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the dems are the ones pushing for doing away with the 2nd amendment.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

no constitutional amendment to remove the 2nd amendment has been up for a vote.

So your claim is 100% false.

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

complete confiscation would never work, so they start out small,.............banning types of guns, taxing ammo,....soon enough, no guns or ammo for the population. no 2nd amendment.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

they banned assault rifles in the 90's. Your claim is once again FALSE

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

you refuse to see what the goal of obama & co. is. there's a video around with holder talking about complete gun control by the govt. complete as in no guns for the citizens. do a search, you'll find it.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

you refuse to acknowledge ACTUAL problems from the Obama administration and instead spout political rhetoric fabricated by gun companies and extremists.

I never said polar extremes on gun issues do not exist. I am saying there is not a push for a removal of the second amendment. There are a few extremists on both sides, from banning guns to suggesting everyone should have one. They are NOT the majority of any group.

Eric Holder wants to blame media for gun violence while our government has troops shooting people overseas and calls them heroes even if they are killing large levels of civilians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyqBxD-3xw

Also you're not properly quoting Holder.

Majority of gun crimes are from gang violence. How can you reduce gang violence? Start with poverty, plant opportunity, legalize drugs, don't give them a way to profit and grow.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Agree - we have a very sick society to heal.

See also : http://occupywallst.org/forum/on-homicides-in-society-it-is-not-the-availability/


[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5552) 4 minutes ago

I definitely support specific gun regulations, especially on hand guns - which are number 1 in gun crimes - but we also need to solve the underlying problems in violence as well... otherwise we're just going to fill the private for profit prisons with more people and waste more tax dollars without actually solving any problems. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

I respect that - support for gun regulations - especially because you've dug into the numbers and found the areas where you could make the most difference...instead of making it a knee jerk emotional response that most do without really knowing if what you're proposing will make a difference.

I personally am against most regulations on guns (clip sizes and other factors that can produce mass shootings I might be persuaded on)....mainly because I do think guns deter crime (violent crime). And as crazy as it sounds to some - i do think there is a historical argument for the population to be able to arm themselves.

[-] 1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 1 year ago

"Majority of gun crimes are from gang violence. How can you reduce gang violence? Start with poverty, plant opportunity, legalize drugs, don't give them a way to profit and grow."

But that would be getting to the root of the problem....why would they do that? The only other thing i would add to the list is anti psychotic drugs with proven track records in controlled studies of violent outbursts and suicidal behavior. Can't touch big pharma though - too many major donations and lobby $ would be infringed upon....same with attacking drug laws - the institutions built up around the ridiculous drug war would be hurt.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

I definitely support specific gun regulations, especially on hand guns - which are number 1 in gun crimes - but we also need to solve the underlying problems in violence as well... otherwise we're just going to fill the private for profit prisons with more people and waste more tax dollars without actually solving any problems.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Which side is all about the police state as well? Both.

Which side is all about banks running the show? Both

Which side is all about empire expansion until collapse? Both

Which side is all about accepting money from people who dont give a damn about the average guy? Both

Which side is all about multinational business partnering with the gov to drown our the competition? Both.

Which side is all about forcing people to buy ins? Both

[-] 2 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

Old TP pushing his "both sides are equally bad, so either give up or follow me" bullshit again.

Man, you are the most tiresome asshole on this forum since tr@shy took a powder. Take the neo-Nazi lies back to the outhouse with ya and read a few more back copies of "Soldier of Fortune."

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Actually reform vs rebuild was a great OWS convo that never got settled- if you dont realize this than me and you are simply on different participation levels.

Dont follow me, follow yourself. No leaders means we are all leaders. And then show me some occupation that formally endorsed any of the current slimeballs.

[-] 4 points by ancientmariner (275) 1 year ago

There has been more than one infiltrator who tries to misdirrect a movement.

You're not the first.

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

dems,......all the way.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Police state- the right loves that shit Banks- the right loves donations from em Empire expansion- right loves that. Obvious. Accepting bribes- right always down for that. Obvious.
Fascism- right loves partnering with private business. Regulations go up every year regardless. Forced insurance- right loves that. Mandatory home owners ins, vehicle ins, and the Dems passed your 90s health ins plan.

The left loves it all too. Pull your blinders off.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

All One Bird

[-] -3 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

forced insurance?????????? you must have missed obamacare that the dems passed in the dead of noght ( christmas eve 2009). THATS forced insurance, with a boatload of txes implemented to pay for this grabage.

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Your party just accepted a shit ton of money from teh big five insurance companies, and nominated the guy with Romneycare...that should show you whats up.

http://theweek.com/article/index/226234/the-individual-mandates-republican-roots-a-guide

Alternative to hillary care? A mandate!! Haha.

You hacks are all the same....

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

romney care was /is a STATE program,........obamacare is a forced FEDERAL mess.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Forced federal mandate, the same thing your guys were endorsing in the 90s.

I dont support. Just realize that your party is a slave to the insurance companies just like the Dems.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

What a fucking laugh! The delusional leading the deranged leading the brainwashed leading the estranged. I wish I could help you two, but I deal with interacting and comprehensive reality and facts for progress and improvement. You two just follow orders or chase unicorns, two bus stop boxers on different sides of the street, screaming at the wind, in unfounded terror or rage. Both a waste of time.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

the 2 parties are 2 factions of the corporate state

  • Noam Chomsky
[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You dont remember the Republicans backing a mandate in the 90's?

You are old enough, you should.

The fanstastic four is once again destroying the forum and hence destroying the message. Thank god most occupiers hate internet forums.

Here ya go: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=F09

Bensdad, you should stick to campaigning with Dems.

[-] 1 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

Something bigger is out there and will surely come to assist me before I am prosecuted/locked up for not seeing M.D. in this free land! In God We Trust that...All One

[-] 0 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

True, but he suffers from PTSD and an unhealthy dose of misogyny, as well as, but not limited to, gun nuttery.

He needs to come in for debriefing.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

The man is clear thinking and 100% correct in his letter to feinstein. he speaks for the millions of people in this country that know that the govt is trying to totally disarm the population in order to control it through tyranny.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

Sorry, but you are wrong and you didn't address his obvious misogyny.

PTSD

Or battle fatigue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuKUJCPMly8

Tyranny?

He should come to Michigan and talk to Governor Snyder.

A true tyrant.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

what misogyny? please be specific.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

" I will not have some woman who proclaims"

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

So? she 's a civil SERVANT. if it was a male politician , he would have said ,...some man and would have been correct. the bill of rights is more important than some politician be it female or male.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

It's a misogynistic statement.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

only in your convoluted tiny brain. everything he said was correct, but you choose a line that hs nothing to do with his statement.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

It was part of his statement, and it is misogynistic........

Don't believe me?

Try that line on your girlfriend.

PS: brain convolutions, or as they are called "folds" are a sign of intelligence, no matter the actual size of the brain, so thanks for the compliment..........:)

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

convoluted as in your brain has folded over on itself making it useless. feinstien is just that, some woman, if she were a man and wanted the same unconstitutional gun laws she would be " some man".

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The population is already controlled and pacified with the anesthesia of nascar, sports, consumerism, and tv shows like doomsday preppers.

None of you gun nuts have stopped anything.

LOL

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

This poster created multiple user accounts to vote for himself.

Busted.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the more you pontificate the more obvious your lack of knowledge.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

If you disagree it's only because you are probably so deep under the 1% corp control you don't know it.

LMFAO.

I gotcha pontification right 'ere.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

whatever you say, boy.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

LOL

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

This poster created multiple user accounts to vote for himself.

Busted.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

are referring to vq?

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes. Got busted for it.

Shill for the libertarians.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

and he's so stupid ,.............perfect for the libs.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I'm thinking it's a bot.

They're very advanced these days.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You're a lyin piece of shit.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Are you denying that you created multiple user accounts to up your point score?

The proof is readily available here in the archives, my friend.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I don't have deny a Goddamn thing.

You haveno proof of you lying accusations.

Are you denying you're a lying piece of shit!?

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

sit . boy, sit. or you might busy yourself with a game of fetch if you can a find someone to throw you a stick.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Fuck you too.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

time for your tricks,.........rollover,..beg, play dead.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Donald Kaul: Nation needs a new agenda on guns

This time, the debate has to be about more than not offending the NRA's sensibilities.

The thing missing from the debate so far is anger — anger that we live in a society where something like the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre can happen and our main concern is not offending the NRA’s sensibilities.

That’s obscene. Here, then, is my “madder-than-hell-and-I’m-not-going-to-take-it-anymore” program for ending gun violence in America:

• Repeal the Second Amendment, the part about guns anyway. It’s badly written, confusing and more trouble than it’s worth. It offers an absolute right to gun ownership, but it puts it in the context of the need for a “well-regulated militia.” We don’t make our militia bring their own guns to battles. And surely the Founders couldn’t have envisioned weapons like those used in the Newtown shooting when they guaranteed gun rights. Owning a gun should be a privilege, not a right.

• Declare the NRA a terrorist organization and make membership illegal. Hey! We did it to the Communist Party, and the NRA has led to the deaths of more of us than American Commies ever did. (I would also raze the organization’s headquarters, clear the rubble and salt the earth, but that’s optional.) Make ownership of unlicensed assault rifles a felony. If some people refused to give up their guns, that “prying the guns from their cold, dead hands” thing works for me.

• Then I would tie Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, our esteemed Republican leaders, to the back of a Chevy pickup truck and drag them around a parking lot until they saw the light on gun control.

And if that didn’t work, I’d adopt radical measures. None of that is going to happen, of course. But I’ll bet gun sales will rise.

By Donald Kaul

How a Bit of Satire Earned Me Round-the-Clock Abuse and Threats of Violence from Gun-Nuts

I may now be closer to believing the NRA is an organization of terrorists.

January 4, 2013 |

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/how-bit-satire-earned-me-round-clock-abuse-and-threats-violence-gun-nuts

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

A Modest Proposal … Take Two

Friday, 04 January 2013 | Bob Alexander | http://tvnewslies.org

Note: The first time I heard about "A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress" was on Mike Malloy's radio program in 2008. I was so impressed with it I put it up in the "rants" section on Superbeans (http://superbeans.com/rant_02_01_08.htm) as a readily accessible reminder that The Elite, and the Crazy Stupid People that follow them, have unrelentingly opposed everything and anything that would benefit We The People. [Health Care reform, Taxing the Rich, Ending the Bogus Bush Wars, Controlling Guns so People don't get SHOT!!!]

The key word here is unrelentingly. Conservatives are like the movie monsters from the Halloween, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Friday the 13th movies. You can’t stop them. You can stab them in the neck, set them on fire, or whack them in the head with a machete, but after a few seconds of getting their movie-monster-mojo together … they rise up again and again and again … and their murderous rampage continues until the closing credits. Unlike their victims, the movie monsters don’t need to stop to sleep, eat, or even catch their breath. But when their hapless quarry takes a breather … Watch Out … that’s when The Monsters Get You. [Zombies]

The Elite and their Crazed Conservative Shills in Congress are even more powerful than their silver screen counterparts. They can lose elections and still have the power to destroy. How could these people deny relief to hurricane Sandy victims? Because they’re monsters. Why are they still trying to destroy our social safety nets? George Carlin explained it all perfectly:

“They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else. … And now they’re coming for your social security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it.”

They’ll get it because they’ve spent decades and untold billions to create and condition enough dumb-asses that don’t know what the hell is going on but believe, and deeply care about, gibberish.

Here are some Ugly American Facts. 61% of Americans don’t believe in evolution. 47% believe the universe is less than 10,000 years old. One child in four grows up not knowing how to read, 21 million Americans can't read at all, and the average American doesn’t read one book in a year. This means if you go outside … you’ve got more than a fifty-fifty chance of meeting a crazy stupid person. Hell … there’s a huge chance you’re related to crazy stupid people. I know I am.

My little circle of acquaintances and family members is positively teeming with crazy stupid people. Maybe you’re in the same boat. So how are we supposed to deal with people who fervently support war crimes, deny science, disregard facts, fear anyone with a skin color darker than their own, are completely unhinged by the concept of same-sex marriage, and believe it is more important to regulate vaginas instead of guns?

I’ve spent years struggling with that question and I’ve spent years doing what all good little liberals do … countering nonsense with facts. You know how that’s worked out? So far I have a 100% failure rate. Not one crazy stupid person budged one millimeter from their position. The Iraq War was A Good Thing. There is no such thing as Global Climate Change. There is no such thing as Peak Oil. Brown People are Scary. Gay people are Scary. Women are Scary. Gun violence is caused by everything but guns.

So I quit talking to these people because I finally realized a very simple fact. You cannot use a rational argument with anyone who is irrational. So put down The Big Book of Facts and walk away. Just walk away.

I read an article by Alan Greenblatt on the NPR website the other day: When It Comes To Politics, States Are Barely United.

The “Red” states are getting redder and the “Blue” states are getting bluer. I don’t think that would be a surprise to anyone who has sat across the Thanksgiving table while the fat-assed brother-in-law holds forth on the dangers of gay marriage. There’s nothing you can say to him that’ll change his mind. If you counter any of his dumb-ass arguments he’ll simply double down on his dumb-assery and keep talking until he runs out of steam. You can’t have a “two-way street” discussion with this guy. It’s not allowed. So now we get to the Modest Proposal part.

It’s not enough to passively avoid these dumb-asses. I’m not talking about “drawing a line in the sand.” It’s already there. They drew the damn thing in the first place. It’s time to actively shun these people. If this yahoo believes in denying anyone their rights you tell him he’s a goddamned fool. If it’s your house … tell him to get the hell out. If it’s his house … gather up your coats and hats and family and get the hell out. We’ve got to stop tolerating these dumb-asses. Piers Morgan dispensed with Gun Nut Larry Pratt by simply telling him, “You're An Unbelievably Stupid Man, Aren't You?”

We need more of this type of response to dumb-assery. We have got to put these dumb-asses on notice that we’re not going to tolerate their insanity any longer. We’re done with these yahoos. Crazy Stupid People should not be invited to the conversation because of a misguided desire to appear to be fair and balanced. The most ridiculous position I can imagine is to ask the people who caused the problem to help with the solution.

We’ve got to shun the dumb-asses because they have no interest in solving the problem. Their agenda is to make it worse.

Now I realize that my Modest Proposal is in no way helping to bridge the political divide that exists in the United States. Some might say it exacerbates the problem.

Really?

The fat-assed bother-in-law vehemently against same sex marriage is the problem. Ignoring him is the problem. Tolerating his ignorance and inhumanity is the problem. Telling him to shut up might be the beginning of the solution.

See here’s the deal … This isn’t about politics anymore … it’s about survival. We can’t have a bunch of bible-thumping morons influence the decisions about what to do about Global Climate Change. We can’t have these dupes of the corporatocracy interfere anymore. We’ve got to tell them to shut the hell up and go sit in the corner until the adults figure out what to do.

So shun ‘em and see what happens. Will the Blue States get Blue-ier and the Red States get crazier?

Yeah.

But that’s already happening.

Will it get better if we negotiate with Crazy Stupid People?

No. We’ll just lose more ground as the oceans rise.

Is there a solution to The Political Divide?

Probably not … but at least we’ll have the satisfaction of giving the crazy bastards the finger before we all sail off the cliff.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

NRA Tries To Teach Lawmakers To Love Assault Weapons By Hosting A ‘Range Tutorial’

By Annie-Rose Strasser on Jan 7, 2013 at 11:38 am

With the Obama administration promising to have a comprehensive conversation about gun safety laws in the coming weeks, there’s little doubt the National Rifle Association will be flexing its muscles to lawmakers around the country. But the organization swears that is not the impetus for its upcoming “elected officials-only classroom and range tutorial” where Nevada state legislators will learn about — and use — semi-automatic assault weapons.

In an email obtained by Jon Ralston, the NRA invites lawmakers to a Las Vegas venue called “Battlefield Vegas” to learn more about such firearms. The organization insists that these lessons have long been planned. But, they add, the sessions have an added importance since the Obama administration is now discussing gun laws:

On Saturday, January 19th from 8:00 to 11:00 a.m. in Las Vegas, the National Rifle Association will be hosting an elected officials-only classroom and range tutorial on the purpose and practical use of semi-automatic firearms and the differences between semi-automatic and automatic function.

Although this invitation is something that has been planned since October of last year to dovetail with the SHOT Show, I’m sure you are aware that this has been a much-discussed issue of late and before the matter of so-called “assault weapons” is debated further, the NRA wanted to create an opportunity for Nevada’s policy makers to examine these firearms firsthand in a secure environment, ask questions, and if desired, shoot them in the indoor range at our host site, Battlefield Vegas. The firearm instructors at Battlefield are the top in their field and will be providing an expert education second to none.

President Obama has floated an assault weapons ban as one of the many legislative steps he’d consider taking to curb gun violence. And while the NRA may try to make assault weapons sound harmless by adding scare quotes and providing legislators with its preferred talking points, studies show that when the ban was in place, such weapons were far less likely to be used in crimes, and that restricting access to assault weapons can help to reduce violent crime.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/07/1406231/nra-assault-weapon-classes/

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

We have a hugh drug problem in this country and the country has imposed laws out the ying yang to stop drug use. The government makes thousands of drug arrests every year. Has it stopped drug use - no it hasn't

Thousands upon thousands of people are murdered every year because of drug use - have drug laws stopped this violence - no it hasn't

Thousands of people are admitted to hospitals every day because of drug abuse and quite a few die - has that stopped people from abusing drugs - no it hasn't

Thousands of people die every year because of drunk driving - has drunk driving laws and thousands of dollars spent to prevent drunk driving, stopped those deaths - no it hasn't.

Did you know that everyone of those individuals involved in all the school shootings were on some kind of medication to control their violence.

Lets look at where the real problem is - it's a "mental issue" that is drug related.

The only other option is to stop violence is to take all violent criminals, give them a labotomy, make them subdued and put them in institutions that will house, feed and clothe them. They will no longer be a threat to society.

That surely will stop the problem but it's apparent based on todays society, probably half this country will end up that way.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

The only drug problem is that they are illegal. This creates almost all the problems associated with drugs.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well, alchol is legal and look at all the deaths associated with alchol desease related deaths, and drunk driving deaths. Do you really think legalizing drug use will stop people from dying?

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

you mean the real and only reason people OD is because drugs are illegal?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

I would say that it is the most significant factor bar none. You can't prevent all deaths from drugs and alcohol (usually a factor in overdose) but having a place where people can safely shoot up or smoke their drugs under the supervision of medical staff like in canada and europe would greatly reduce death from overdose.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

you're delusional. a place where people can "safely" shoot up?as if everyone that drinks alcohol does it under supervison. same with drugs. you're nuts.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

Actually if you did a little google search you would find I am right.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

BAN all guns and ammo now, sort the details later.

The URGENCY is singularly on saving lives, not gun ownership!!

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

How about we ban all alchol, and all drugs to go along with that OK and we can sort those details out too.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

No withdrawal reactions from guns, Dip Shit! No REAL need for guns whatsoever!

Check out UK! That's where we're going JETHRO!!

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Have you ever been to the UK? London?

I'll guess no.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Have you ever been smart?

You asked for it.

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

You are jus jealous because you can't own firearms - that's your real problem.

All right then here is a really practical solution. If you really want to solve crime problems in this country - anyone who committed a "violent crime" that involves a murder - require them to get a labotomy

Take them out of society, provide them housing, clothing and food until they die. And that's not even considered cruel and unusual punishment - after all they are no longer violent and are being cared for.

Won't have to worry about them again and we are culling our society of violent people then everyone can live happly ever after.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Immediate gun & ammo Ban, NOW!!

$10K fine per weapon and ten rounds.

Time to joint the 21st Century!!

[-] -2 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

That isn't going to stop the problem - look at all the laws concerning drunk driving and drugs.

Sounds to me like you are a socialist when you want to take freedoms away from people and put everyone in a box to be the same ol, same ol.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

NO, IDIOT!

The FREEDOM of people to not be shot trumps the dubious, obsolete and dangerous hobby of guns! And is MUCH MORE important!

The old Wild West is long gone, podnah!

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well it still doesn't address the issue - violent mentally disturbed people. Like I said in a previous post if a person kill someone and is found to be guilty and incompetent then do a labotomy on them.

That will solve the problem just by the fact that if a person knows when they deliberately kill somoene they will will be put in a state of "sunspended animation" meaning they will be very passive and no longer a threat.

That will stop them for sure.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well let me address that issue - If I own a firearm legally and lets say I sell it to a person who has a criminal record. Now this person goes out and commits a crime with this firearm and gets caught or for that matter loses the firearm and gets away.

Whom do you think the police are going to come after when they find the firearm -

The only people selling firearms to other people without knowing anything about them are people who own illegal firearms and can make a hugh profit off selling them.

I have sold firearms to individuals over the years and made sure I had all the pertent information before I sold them.

Law abiding gun owners don't go out buying hand guns to sell to people who will use the weapon to commit crimes - that's plain stupidity especially when it can be traced back to them.

So that issue is mute.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"Law abiding gun owners don't go out buying hand guns to sell to people who will use the weapon to commit crimes" They definitely absolutely do!. Why not? it ain't illegal!

And once the loopholes are closed we will absolutely check the people who sell guns to the bad guys. And those sellers shouild do jailtime if everything ain't right with the sale.

Agreed?

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Provide facts - povide information on people who sold guns to people who murdered and killed - You can't - all you can do is say this is so when it isn't.

Apparently you have never been around people who own guns. All you have probably been around are criminals so you think like a criminal.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I know the guns that are in nyc come from va, ga etc. I think I said clearly the gun sellers ain't breakin the law, they just don't give a shit cause they know the guns are comin to nyc, (or other cities). Cause they hate the cities. We ain't the "real America" remember?

http://www.nycrimecommission.org/initiative1-strikeforce.php

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

We should remind this poster that he created users to up-vote himself, and the admin of this site busted him for it.

Look up NPD sufferers, and you'll see exactly the kind of person you're dealing with here.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You're the partisan. You've tried repeatedly to chase me away? I'm goin strong. policing you and you're right wing motherfucker friends.

I've told all you weak ass ignorant shills I AIN'T GOIN ANYWHERE!!!

You cannot stop me. Even with these pathetic accusations. Perhaps you have confused me with one of your sock puppets.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I know that you did this, VQ.

We all know you did this. It's highly embarrassing to have you still hanging around, spouting your partisan shit, after you've been exposed doing this on #ows.

Have you no shame?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You don't know a goddamn thing. except that I'm gonna make sure your partisan lies don't go by without some honest corrections.

LMFAO!!

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Just a short lesson in the English language.

You are shortened is you're. Your is a possessive pronoun.

You are still a vindictive shill who is clouding this forum with unneeded shit.

Which part of 'fuck off' are you having trouble understanding?

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

wipe the spittle off your face and calm down, mommy will tend to you soon.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You're lyin & you know it. I use one login. You can't handle a challenge to the obvious cover you're tryin to provide repubs.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I know that you did this, VQ.

We all know you did this. It's highly embarrassing to have you still hanging around, spouting your partisan shit, after you've been exposed doing this on #ows.

Have you no shame?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Stop lying. Your just angry cause I won't let your sorry as get away with your silence on repub crimes.

transparent right wing shill.!

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Who's lying?

You got your arse handed to you by the admin on this forum, and anyone who has been here from the start saw what happened.

You created users for the sole purpose of voting up your own comments.

That makes you a narcissist and a pest.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

You're full of shit.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

We should remind this poster that he created users to up-vote himself, and the admin of this site busted him for it.

Look up NPD sufferers, and you'll see exactly the kind of person you're dealing with here.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Can you read? Or are as ignorant as you sound?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

We should remind this poster that he created users to up-vote himself, and the admin of this site busted him for it.

Look up NPD sufferers, and you'll see exactly the kind of person you're dealing with here.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Bullshit.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Are you VQ? or one of your sock puppets?

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well you can give all the lip service you want but you have no proof - just speculation - like the rest of those who want more firearms regulations thinking it will solve "a problem" when in fact it won't.

The war on drugs didn't solve that problem did it?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The war on drugs was designed to oppress minorities which has worked out just as they wanted. No?

And the weak guns laws in the confederate states are designed to deliver cheap guns to urban areas in order to increase gun crimes/death amongst minorities as well, right?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

If the "war on drugs" was so effective why are thousands of people dying using drugs and/or people getting killed distritubing them? Explain that.

[-] -1 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

"the war on drugs was designed to oppress minorities"? please explain.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Because the death and destruction of lives (minority mainly) is part of the plan. No?

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Says the guy who voted for more bombs in Africa and the ME.

What a hypocrite.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

OK sidewalk chalk RepubliCon!

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

What a foo. Have fun directly voting for more deaths.

Are they directly related to you? no.

Did you endorse them. Yes.

The truth sucks, doesnt it. Most in occupy want better, dont tolerate that idiotic nonsenes. But you do.

Sucks to be you.

Now live with your record. Your media forced us to. Now its your turn.

[-] -1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Have fun bus stop boxer!

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Insulting the bus riders again...how typical...you did that before, looks like you still dont ride the bus.

Car pool for Occupy much?

[-] -1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I have to admit, you make me laugh, you're so dumb!

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

What does "bus stop boxer" mean?

Does it mean Im a boxer?

Or does it mean Im poor so I box at bus stops?

Some people understand decentralization and horizontal, and some people are democrats.

Which one are you?

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

sorry pal, you just cant ban anything thats in the bill of rights.it doesnt work that way,......on purpose.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

We did it with slavery, abortion and civil rights.

Guns and Ammo, next!!

Time to join the 21st Century!!

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

no dear, those things were not "banned' they were done with constitutional amendments. read the constitution, learn the process.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Pettifogging semantics!

We could do the same for muskets/open firearm (assault weapons) ownership in the constitution, without the SCOTUS ruling.

Slavery and excluding women and minorities were BANNED! Guns are next! The old Wild West is long gone!

Time for PROGRESS and the 21st Century!

UK gun laws!

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

Not " semantics" you idiot. it's the law.read the constitution , its easy to understand unless you're a functional illiterate ( as you seem to be ). It's article V , give it a try. the supreme court is ONE branch of govt. It's function is to interpret law NOT make law. by the way , the uk is much much smaller in population that the usa, no legal gun ownership but they have a hgher percentage of gun violence.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Ahem, Citizens United! Back to your FEMA camp RW deranged NUTTER!!

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

you give new meaning to stupid.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

OK, back to your camp, grilled cheese dogs today!

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the supreme court decides whether something is constitutional or not. they are not empowered by the constitution to make law, that power is given ( by the constitution ) to the congress

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Citizens United ordered by Koch Bros and instituted by the fascists on the Roberts Court.

Slavery, Women and Minority Discrimination, BANNED!

Next Guns!!

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

the court decided its constitutionality. dont like,.........get a lawyer and go after the decision. slavery , and discrimination were not " banned " , they were addresed through constitutional amendents.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The impeachment and revocation will be so sweet, especially while you insane righties enjoy 12 more years of Dems in the WH and the gradual obsolescence and rejection of the RepubliCon Cult and have election reform that disengages the 1% you creeps worship!

[-] -2 points by aville (-678) 1 year ago

wow ! multi sylabic words from the semi functional iliterate. how unimpressive, and boring.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

We arrest all the wrong dopers and drunks.

http://www.thefix.com/content/wall-street-addiction-finance-cocaine-meltdown7456

I thought you knew.

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well then for what purpose did the govenment enact drug laws - for control of society or to curb violence and death?

And for what purpose do you think they want to enact more "firearms control laws" To control society or to curb violence and death?

The only difference between these two issues is that the there is more violence and deaths associated with drugs then there are with firearms or should I say "semi automatic rifles".

[-] 1 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

Post the link and you still don't know.

Amazing.

[-] 1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

I read your link and am aware of it but it still doesn't solve the problem - our society is "drug infested" not just wall street.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

How many of the ones you're talking about get fucked up and play with the Worlds economy?

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

"In 2008, already 30'000 deaths were caused by of drug overdoses in the US, 15'000 were caused by prescribed opioid pain relievers. 80% of the worlds supply is consumed in the US, accounting for 5% of the worlds population. In 2009, already 37'000 deaths now outnumber traffic fatalities."

--^ Painkiller addiction: the plague that is sweeping the US, The Guardian, 2012-11-28. ^ Vital Signs: Overdoses of Prescription Opioid Pain Relievers --- United States, 1999--2008, CDC, 2011-11-04 ^ Drug deaths now outnumber traffic fatalities in U.S., data show, L.A. Times, 2012-11-17

Not saying legalize all drugs AND all guns, but saying if you going by numbers clearly drug ODs dwarf gun deaths.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

You still ignore what's posted.

Here's a guy ( a 1%er) who had so much fun fucking our country up with other peoples money, his nose collapsed.

http://www.thefix.com/content/millionaires-nose-collapses-cocaine90676

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

So developers tha tare running drugs are the ones in LIBOR? Created the housing bubble? Shipped all the jobs overseas? Destroyed our food supply? Created the fake war on terror?....

Really?...

Come on man....

[-] 1 points by shooz (26657) 1 year ago

Yes, Yes, those very same ones.

I posted a link for Barclay's and the London financial district too.

Sorry you missed it.

Yep, high on's playing war and other things, with other peoples money.