Forum Post: Arrest of Anti-Islamist Figures Is Ordered in Egypt
Posted 11 years ago on March 26, 2013, 9:18 a.m. EST by quantumystic
(1710)
from Memphis, TN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
NO matter what, the true character of leadership always rises to the surface. Anyone who thought the islamists didn't want to rule like the Iranian leadership is a freaking fool. The poor secularists and students are soo fucked.
Islam is a noble religion that in some cases has been hijacked by extremists,
But no more than Christianity has throughout the ages and right up to the present
~Odin~
IMO, The hijacking comes about from a mob rule mentality. Once set in motion, there is no individual is able to oppose without sometimes severe consequences. The leaders keep the mob rule active at all times by continuous imflamatory speeches, blame game tactics, teachings, etc. Mob rule lacks tolerance for opposing views. Revolutionaries do the same thing. Without a continuous revolution, they would become powerless.
Is that how Christianity has been hijacked too
And when you use releigion as a force that binds against insurmountable odds, is that so uncommon
~Odin~
One could apply the mob rule to any religion, and other things as well. Christianity was certainly hijacked in past times (middle ages, for instance). There are some segments of Christianity that are far right and these do exhibit a "one voice only, no dissension" system (if you speak out you may be thrown out). One difference today is that here in the US there are other options (religion) where in the middle east, there are few or none. The playing field is tilted to the extreme where only one religion is present and is intertwined so much in government. Government can be the arm of the religion to insure nomdissenting voices. There is influence here, but not to the same degree, partially due to a non secular government. I believe that we are seeing more dissension within religion here In The US than ever before.
Christianity is being hihacked now as people of religion shut their eyes to the devastation we bring to the world
Has Christianity become blindly patriotic by its silence? I reckon so.
We have vast sections of our population that are Christian Zionists, who fully support Israel's barbarism against the Palestinians in the West Bank
Who are we to judge them when we let our children dress up like little harlots, and where pornography is pervasive in our society?
Who are we to judge them when we have the highest incarceration rate by far in the world?
Who are we to judge them when we kill hundreds of thousands of people in an unjust war?
We have only suffered the injustices of neoliberal capitalism for a relatively short time. They have suffered for several generations (ever since oil was discovered in the Mid East) by way of our support of very despotic leaders, military occupations, and mass killings, which includes women and children.
Should we be surprised that much of their cilivization has become radicalized, Or that it has not had the chance to grow if all that wasn't so.
To ignore these facts is the epitome of ethnocenticism in the most inobjective way
~Odin~
You make an interesting observation of another valid variable that I had not considered. Yet even with that, there is a distinct lack of tolerance for other religions and internal religious dissent. Now is that a result of the external effect you mention, or is it a "convenient tool" for the ruling factions in having an enemy to blame? (Of course there are some similarities of our government actions and the use of the "cold war". ) Maybe it comes down to who can judge who is right in their belief system, society rules, etc. Fascinating observation Odin, I missed that one completely. Makes one reconsider ones view from his vantage point. And produces more and more questions and fewer answers. Maybe I was looking at it from a secular (separationof church and state), human rights and tolerance balance point of view. My quick answer might not be my best attempt, but then I might need a week to really think about it.
Thank You for that humble reply eng4. That shows like me, you are searching for the truth
Nothing is ever black or white, so i suspect that both scenarios that you pointed out are present
Whatever injustices people in the Middle East suffer, it reverberates around the Muslim world, especially when it is the same oppressor
Keep in mind, that it wasn't that long ago that the Catholic church ruled over Europe with an iron fist, intolerantly presiding over the Dark Ages. It took them a while to recover from that. It took us over 200 years before we elected the first Catholic President because people remembered that ugly time, and feared having the country being run by the Pope. It will take the Muslim world a while to repair itself when the repression finally ends, then giving it a chance to develop in a normal way. And let's not forget that at one point in history, they had a very advanced civilization, while some of our European ancestors were living in mud huts.
All you have to do is put yourself in their shoes. I mean are the radicals over there any different than the radicals here, with the difference of course being they have suffered much,much more hence they are far more extreme. Are they terrorists or freedom fighters? What would you do if you were in their boots, and one of your loved ones was passed off as collateral damage? What will we do if things here don't get better, but instead get far worse?
Have you ever been given a cheek to cheek good morning greeting from a beautiful young immigrant Muslim woman.....who was attending universiy, and when asked by her cousin why she didn't try to become a model, she replied, "because I want to make a difference, and become a doctor?"
Have you ever broken bread with a Muslim family?
Have you ever been given a plastic tub full of delicious home-made Arab cookies to take home with you?
I have had all these experiences, and a lot more with people of the Muslim faith. They are no different than people anywhere. We all want the chance for a better life for ourselves, and our children. It's that simple.
~Odin~
I have actually traveled the world quite a bit while working as an engineer and have met so many different people. We get a bit insulated here in the US. A lot of people here are afraid of change, afraid of others cultures, etc. I used to love to travel in Europe. Everyone there is so multi-cultural (at least the ones that i met) and I believe it's because of proximity. I got to India also and loved the people there. It gives one perspective when able to visit places (not as a tourist, but as a co-worker). Most tourists just see buildings and scenery, but never actually meet and talk with people. My dinner conversations with our colleagues (always at a small, local place) was something I will always treasure. But it sounds like you have had even a greater experience. I used to tell people to "stand in another's shoes", and you reminded me of that.
Thanks eng4... traveling is not the only way to broaden your horizons, but it is probably the best way
The thing that i have always observed is how few Americans travel when they are young, or at least that is the way it was when I was young
That makes all the difference because when they get older they are too set in their ways, and often deserve the label of 'Ugly American' who goes overseas and is disappointed that everything is not the same as it was back in America
It would be difficult to support drone strikes on a people that you knew, and grew to love
The thing that impressed me the most about India was the vitality of its people
The parody movie with Chevy Chase with his family visiting Europe, while funny, unfortunately has a lot of truth to it
~Odin~
I have some friends here in the US that are uncomfortable around people speaking other languages. I used to sit at sidewalk cafes, and just watch people. Did not matter if i did not undestand a word. What I learned most was that when you make an attempt to learn just some of the language, it goes a long way towards building trusting relationships. I have had other collegagues ask me "how can you get along with those people there" and I would tell them that I could not wait to go back. They just could not figure it out. Open honest relationship building was the key to maximum cooperation (and successful projects).
I've been used to hearing other languages spoken around me all my life, and it has never bothered me
My dad was a Swede, the two guys that I served an apprenticeship with on the boats were from Norway, my ex spoke with a quirky NZ English, and most of the guys at our ship-yard were from different parts of the old Yugoslavia
Americans could learn from Europeans, but vice versa too especially in Eastern Europe where old grudges are held and revived from time to time for generations
Many Americans have a very self centered, even a xenophobic view of the world that cannot be totally excused by our geographic isolation
Early in our education we are taught that people came here to escape religious persecution. While that may be true in part, we also seem to have all the religious wackos over here, and the intolerance that they propagate is a real problem
~Odin~
"one voice only, no dissension"
sounds like middle management
Nope, sorry, not even close.
oh right sorry
don't find a reason to fire me
Not sure why you were fired Matt, but it does not make any sense to compare it to my responses. You have a fiduciary responsibility to your employer and that means that you have to comply with whatever rules are set within that company. Do not want to get off topic.
fi·du·ci·ar·y
/fəˈdo͞oSHēˌerē/ Adjective
Involving trust, esp. with regard to the relationship between a trustee and a beneficiary.
I believe you know exactly what I wrote to mean. If not then say so and try not be too cute this time . I do not know why you were let go from your job, and I truly hope you find something else that you can be happy to do. But when I am on topic and you go in this direction, there is not much I can do other than make a general statement about what you said.
your argument is a logical fallacy.
No, it is not
~Odin~
whether or not islam is noble has nothing to do with christianity.
No it doesn't, but using that comparison in showing that Christianity can be hijacked too is valid
~Odin~
no, this is what we call a logical fallacy because one has nothing to do with the other.
"Logical fallacy"? Says you & I say that it is a valid comparison based on sound reasoning
Am i correct that you believe that Islam has been hijacked to a certain degree at least?
I believe that Christianity has been hijacked by people who have forgotten what Christian values are, and think just by going to church, they are morally superior
My comparison is valid, and the hypocrisy that it points to is also accurate.
~Odin~
islam is not a religion, its a politcal system.
islam is a politcal system that calls itself a religion.calling it a religion doesnt make it one.
Says you
~Odin~
No, says them , by their actions. take a look what muslims around the world are doing ( have done) . http://therelgionofpeace.com/
OK now should i send you to a web site where you can see all the mutilated bodies of children who were victims of radium laced bombs, or can you find it yourself?
~Odin~
Did you bother to go to the website and actually read it?
In western denial of psychological potential, the capacity to understand how the human unconscious mind works is needed to truly free those of Islam. Two millennium of persecution has moved them from their original spiritual position.
Mohammed made me do it
to get inside Islam - check out TAQIYYA
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm
taqiyya allows for muslim adherents to lie to further islam.
When Egypt & Syria settle down, I am afraid that they
will follow apolph's post WW1 lead -
blame the Jews -
and also try to unify by attacking Israel
rather than solving their own problems
What else is new,.....................blame the jews is an old song. i think they are jeaous of what the jews have accomplished in israel. they took an inhospitable land and turned it into a productive agricultural paradise. they are also medical and technical innovators and discoverers. i think the muslims ( who are taught to hate jews) are just plain jealous.