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Forum Post: Arizona Passes Law Restricting Abortion . . .

Posted 2 years ago on April 13, 2012, 10:52 p.m. EST by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Uhhhhh. . .

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-arizona-abortion-20120414,0,5499426.story

Let us all be INTELLECTUALLY HONEST here.

UNTIL states (or feds) are prepared to administer pregnancy tests to ALL women of childbearing age when they leave the U.S. on either a commercial airline or a private charter jet, this whole abortion thing is just a wedge issue.

Moreover, any such law will JUST impact poor and middle class women who are unable to fly overseas for an abortion.

60 Comments

60 Comments


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[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

The law bans abortions after 20 weeks.

Here is a picture of a fetus at 21 weeks: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-02-20-tiny-baby_x.htm

I understand the ans defend the right to do whatever you want with your body. After 21 weeks I have to agree that there appears that there is more than one body involved in the procedure.

Abortion is number three on the list of most preformed medical procedures in the US. There is an abortion every 21 minutes

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the cleanest line to draw between human and growth would be birth

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Life is not about what is clean and convenient.

Life is very dirty and inconvenient.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

if one wanted to make a distinction between and baby and a growth,

no could call for the first breath as character defining

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

You criteria seems a bit cruel to me.

I guess I have a different perspective as I worked in a hospital and watched teams doctors and nurses work frantically to save and incubate premature babies.

I also had the pleasure of meeting the children after they had grown. Many wonderful children. It is disheartening that you do not value their lives and that you have no problem extinguishing them because they have not started breathing.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

get your hands off me

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

you keep replying....

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

One my friends had three abortions while in high school. Count them, THREE! (Excessive even by my low standards!) The last one her family made her work and save up the money for. I felt really sad for her to have wait until she was further along to pay for it. I went out with a boy who insisted we go over to an ex-boyfriends who he was still great friends with. The ex guy mixed us both drinks and the boy I was with passed out and the ex had his way with me. I salted that one out myself at home when my period was three days late. Women can salt them out at home without any help if they catch their pregnancy early on. Yet they don't know how, why is that? I don't regret what I did, I didn't want to marry the creep or raise his baby. I married a wonderful man and couldn't wait to have his kids. I don't believe I fooled God for a second, He is all knowing therefore He knew exactly what I was going to do. I don't think He is cruel and said, "Hey you little soul are gonna sit in a womb for a few weeks and get washed out by salty water, have a nice day!" If He did, He's worse than me cause I thought better of Him, I really did!

[-] 1 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 2 years ago

But . . .

My point is that if we are truly going to ban abortions -- 6 days or 6 weeks or ?? -- then it is intellectually dishonest and ineffective to have the current and proposed laws.

UNTIL we are prepared to administer fertility tests to women of child-bearing age when then leave and re-enter the U.S., then all we are doing is oppressing and controlling poor women.

Maybe that's their intent.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

Wow, that is a messed up statistic. What do you feel is the cause of such an epidemic?

I mean, ain't this the greatest nation in the world, lol. Why would so many people be offing their offspring in the greatest nation in the world? I guess such a statistic is an indictment against the land of the free. No wonder the migration rate is so high, that's the only way to grow the population. Those that have lived here for a few generations realize they live in the land of the Big Con and choose not to subjugate their future kin to such mockeries.

Now, I know it's a generalization that i just made, but after reading your statistic, I believe I did make the right chose not procreating in this land, a land that can't keep a growing population unless it makes all the other lands worst. What a shame. no?

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Look, if the pregnancy is detected early, (a missed period is usually a hint) you can make a very strong saline solution, squirt it right up your cervix with a blub syringe or a nice turkey baster and its nobody's business. The anti abortion literature claims you need huge needle in the tummy but there other ways to get some salty water into your womb. Tell a friend, tell your daughters, spread the word. Why don't you already know this??? Why do you know all about tampons and condoms and not this??? Knowledge is power, they can't ban table salt. Avoid Coat Hangers, Stay safe ladies.

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Women are only entitled to those rights that we as a society afford them, and we should not afford them rights that we would not afford ourselves - if men were having the abortions, women would be all over us.

I'm strictly Roe vs Wade as the absolute limit of my tolerance; this does not address at all the emotional aspect, as the issue of morality, and for some Roe vs Wade is insufficient.

Abortions, incidentally are only for the extremely stupid; there are much more sensible and efficient avenues.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17440) 2 years ago

Actually, considering the number of laws that are on some states books regarding miscarriages this is no longer a wedge issue. This is war.

[-] 2 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 2 years ago

Bring on the coat hanger for poor women.

Book a flight to Europe or Thailand for the well-heeled

This is not just war. It is class war. And war on the sexes. And racist war.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17440) 2 years ago

Yep.

[-] 3 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 2 years ago

Republicans ramp up their war on women . . . poor and middle-class women, that is.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Hey, I think "zombiefighter," (see above) meant for his comment to be here. The new guy clicked the wrong tab.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Maybe there is more to being a zombie than we though, can't have great hand eye coordination and be a good zombie now can he? Seriously, I'm trying to talk women out of coat hangers whenever possible! (And working and saving up for MONTHS to get their abortion! Salt is ridiculously cheap.)

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Good point! You may want to answer him though. It's good to encourage the new guys.

Are you serious about the coat hangers? I thought that went out in the '60's. Something I just have never understood about the anti-abortion crowd, their complete lack of understanding the alternative.

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Well, I always say the same people who want to save the babies want to force us to feed them spend 18 years getting attached to them so they can take their guns and shoot the ones they decide they don't like when they aren't cute anymore! As a parent of an autistic child, I'm really ticked at the number of unwanted special needs kids in America. If your not gonna open your home, don't open your mouth!

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Well put. Obviously your child has given you a good perspective of the problem. Good luck.

[-] 3 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Oh, I love my girl! She's honest to a fault and that is such a beautiful thing after listening to politicians. But not all parents turn out to be able to rise the occasion when a child is disabled. Its not always a matter of not being loved, its about resources and skills and time. So kids end up the system and there they stay in group homes and the like. People feel free to say they are the voice of the unborn without ever going down to social services and saying, "What can I do?" Its the lack of follow threw. If they had real values that were more than lip-service, I'd listen really I would. Right now I just want say be constant if you don't believe in killing babies, end hand guns, and the death penalty too. Be consistent in your diligence to preserve life. That I respect. I relocate rodents and spiders and bees. That doesn't give me the right to speak against abortion because I am just too busy with my family to take on another child.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

You are proof that there are still true human beings on this planet and that's why I've never given up hope, despite all the doom and gloom. I, too, "relocate" insects and small critters. I have a small rodent problem but refuse to put out traps and abhor poisons. Rat poison, if you've ever seen the effects, is a horrible way to die, I don't care if it is "just" a mouse. If you want to rid you house of mice, get rid of their food sources. I don't kill bugs, I take them outside or leave them be. Never sprayed my home and the problem never gets out of hand because nature, left alone, achieves its own balance. Spiders in your basement prevent roaches in your kitchen.

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

My mother-in-law says I must have lived a past life in Indian the way I am over my spiders. I lost it when she tried to spray a batch common house spiders she misidentified as poisonous. I love my spiders, I really dislike mosquitoes and flies and they do wonders with those! With a cup and a sheet of paper, I put wasps outside. I've never been bitten relocating stuff. I've probably had to remove the same wasp three times this week!

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

A fellow spider fan! People don't realize what a huge benefit they are. They keep all the other critters in check. I've lived in this house almost thirty years and can count the times I've been bitten on one hand. They're fascinating to watch, if they're actually doing something, that is. ;-)

[-] 3 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

I wonder what pro-lifers will make of people who don't like to swat flies but will fight to preserve a woman's right to choose??? I know what I think of them, its easy to want to save cute little babies but its wrong to think you'll need guns because they won't be raised right! You are saying you know saving the babies will create a big enough problem you'll need guns??? I just think they have a bad plan. I imagine they think we are all viscous heartless people to not want to save the cute little babies for later shootings and entertaining executions.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

The pro-lifers would be completely perplexed by what they would see as a complete contradiction. Kind of like their attitude that it's okay to kill a doctor to save a baby. To me, that is a bizarre contradiction.

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Me too! You either believe in the sanctity of life or you don't. They believe they should be given the right to play God all the time everyone else's lives. They want to control the number of babies born, they want bullets and guns in case they feel the need to end a life, they want to kill prisoners to scare people into being good. I'm a Christian too. I believe if God didn't even bend Hitler to His will, He's saying freedom to make your own choices must reign supreme even if you do make the most vile choices! Besides, I believe God knows which fetuses will need a soul and which one's won't because we agree to be parents to the souls we are given before we are even born. I don't think He can be fooled or tricked. And I think it would be incredibly silly to have souls sit around in the womb waiting to be miscarried, and if He doesn't do that, abortion wouldn't be allowed to traumatize souls either. Even from a religious point of view, it really doesn't fly. Well, not with people who think God really is God and we agree to come live the lives we are offered. Why religious people have lost faith in the kindness that is God's love or the power He has, I do not know. Why they want to set themselves up as His voice without paying attention to the example He sets in wanting everyone to be free to make their own choices good or bad, I can't understand.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

True. They're hypocrites of the worst kind. And the ones that claim to believe in God are the biggest hypocrites of the bunch.

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[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

As far as I can tell this law does not make anyone fly overseas or resort to a coat hanger.Class war, war on the sexes? Racist? Please to explain.

[-] 2 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 2 years ago

So . . . the law in its invite wisdom and magnificence allows both poor women and rich women to fly to Europe or Thailand to have an abortion.

Uhh Huh?!

[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

Okay. One more time. Why would they (rich or poor) have to leave the country? It doesn't out law abortion?

[-] 2 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 2 years ago

Maybe not outlaw. But Arizona has passed a law that severely restricts the procedure, banning most abortions after 20 weeks. Get it?

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

What I find repulsive about the law is that I read a lot of local shopper magazines and they all have advertisements for adoption services. You know, it is kinda hypocritical that a party that is so supposedly subservient to God's will, would allow a person deemed unworthy to procreate to adopt a child. But, at last, it is a cottage industry out here, no wonder the bill got passed. Gotta keep those commodities well stocked in the nation that prides itself as being the nation of business.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

Yikes!!!!

I never thought of that. All those agencies need product to sell, along with referrals for "services".

Then there's the baby products corporations. What kind of diapers do the Kochs make?

It's gold mine of baby flesh.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

I sometimes wonder if the industry lobbied the bill and rallied the simple, miss guided, busy body, do gooders. Ain't it funny how liberals always get labeled that? lol.

I am joking for the sake of clarity of course.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

Was ALEC involved in any of these laws they are enacting?

It very likely is, at least in Arizona.

http://www.pfaw.org/press-releases/2012/04/alec-holds-tight-grip-arizona-legislature

[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

Why would they have to go overseas? Can't they go to another state. They could come to California and have that kid sucked right out.

[-] 2 points by Toynbee (656) from Savannah, GA 2 years ago
  • Many poor young girls lack the ability to travel to another country or another state.

  • "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread." Anatole France

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[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

Well?

[-] 2 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

(R)epelican'ts don't like personal rights, teabaggers, even more so.

So they have endeavored to remove as many of them as they can in the 50 States that they have infected. Women are the easiest targets for them, so as they are lazy thinkers, they enact legislation such as this.

Lots of folks like to ignore that and bitch only about National politics.

[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

How is it racist? How is it against both sexes. How does it make someone have to leave the country in order to get an abortion? Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying I support this bill. I'm just seeing a lot of accusations being thrown around that make no sense.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

This is not a new issue around here. I would advise you to go ahead and read some of those threads.

Teabaggers have infected the States with all kinds of absolutely ignorant legislation.

There's all kinds of threads around dealing with it.

The loins share of your questions, were answered in the last paragraph of the opening thread post.

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

God, you're such a dipshit.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

And you're santorum.........:)

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

I'm santorum? I fucking hate santorum actually. I was considering voting for the Socialist if Santorum got the Rep nomination. But he didn't. So I won't vote at all. Yay!

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

Google it dim wit.

You did insulted me. You must be getting really drunk.

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Google what? Santorum?

and I did insulted you? Who is the one whose drunk?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

You really are, dumb as a Tennessee teabagger.

Good old rocky top..............:)

I thought I was jokin'.

[-] -1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

Are you mentally handicapped? I mean that in the most sincere and non-insulting way. If you are that would explain a lot.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

Whatever dude. You're the one that doesn't get google.

[-] 0 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 2 years ago

I know what google is. I was asking what you meant by "google santorum".

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

You're tired, go to sleep. You've forgotten how to use google.

[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

Never mind. In other words not one of you can answer. You just make accusations and expect them to be believed.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

Did you bother to read the article?

I didn't accuse you of anything......yet.

[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

Yes. I read it. Your point ?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

It's BS legislation. I thought you might notice.

It's government control of a woman's body.

I don't like that sort of thing

[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

Well, it doesnt outlaw abortion. But it does put some restrictions on it. Just out of curiosity should there be any limit in your opinion?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17945) 2 years ago

Until the child is born, it's up to the woman.

That's much better than anything else I've heard.

[-] -1 points by Zombiefighter (-16) from Ione, CA 2 years ago

Why not after it's born?