Forum Post: Are The Democrats Throwing The Election?
Posted 11 years ago on Oct. 6, 2012, 10:12 p.m. EST by GypsyKing
(8708)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The performance of President Barack Obama in the first debate with Romney was so poor that it seemed quite possibly scripted. Would a Democratic landslide threaten the establishment and its endless gravy train of political contributions? Is the process itself merely created to forever keep the margin of victory too close for anything to fundamentally change, beyond moving slowly, inexorably to the right, through ever increasing corporate control? Stay tuned.
As a real thought exercise for the future, how about a 'Huge Voter Turnout' and also agitating for mass 'write-ins' for Stein, Sanders, Nader, McKinney, Kucinich, Johnson, Anderson etc ?! People need hope and to to think 'out of the box' of 'The DemoCrap / RepubliCon Faux-Binary Construct'.
The Entire voting system in the U$A has been co-opted and The 99% must reclaim it - with 'Manually Counted Paper Ballots' being the bare minimum safeguard against demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy in "The United States of Amnesia" (Gore Vidal, RIP) ! Duopolistic 'Electoralism' (you won't find that in a dictionary but you'll get what I mean) is broken & voting is only one avenue of change as it is only one aspect or tactic to affect real change by a Mass 99% Movement from below.
The real goal is NOT merely just to change the structure of government -- it is to fundamentally reclaim "The Lincolnian Definition' of "Government OF The People ; FOR the People ; BY The People" and to restore the demoCRAZY deMOCKERYcy that The U$A has become. The US 99% deserve no less. The US 99% struggle really starts properly after this coming November's POTUS (S)Election. 2016 is the real target for The 99% Mass Movement..
OWS needs to achieve is 'Critical Mass', like a snowball rolling down a slope and we will and can only, achieve this outside the corrupting reach of The Totally Propagandist Corporate Controlled BS-MSM (ABCNNBCBS-{Lame}FUX SNEWzzz et al). Thus, we must continue to agitate ; educate & organise - wherever we are. Finally, I append links to two other threads :
http://occupywallst.org/forum/noam-chomsky-on-activism-ows-the-2012-election/ &
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-vanishing-appeal-of-capitalism-by-james-rothen/ .
The first link is for a recent wide ranging interview with Noam Chomsky and the second an interesting article and a thread referencing the 'strategic vote' issue. Take heart 'GK', good to see you back and thanx for the thought provoking 'forum-post' & remember - you are not alone or 'a loan'. My parting thought is to regard "Voter Suppression" as far more insidious and relevant for November's vote. Also :
"Noam Chomsky : Issues That Obama and Romney Avoid" : http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/11956-noam-chomsky-issues-that-obama-and-romney-avoid ;
"The Secret GOP-Dem Effort to Shut Out Third Parties", by Alexander Reed Kelly : http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/the_secret_gop-dem_effort_to_shut_out_third_parties_20121003/ ;
"Expanding the Debate Exclusive : Third Party Candidates Break the Sound Barrier As Obama-Romney Spar", by Democracy Now! : http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/4/expanding_the_debate_exclusive_third_party ;
"Political Fraud" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koT2HxenZ5U [10:15m Video Essay] &
"America's Duopoly of Money in Politics and Manipulation of Public Opinion", by Charles Ferguson : http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/03/america-duopoly-money-politics , from which ...
"Behind the divisiveness lies a deeper bipartisan consensus in which donors own democracy and there are no votes in reform", from the maker of the essential doc. 'Inside Job' ( http://vimeo.com/24981578 ).
per aspera ad astra ...
Desperately difficult and convoluted situation. A whole university couls do ALL their dissertations on how to extricate our democracy from this exquisitly crafted sham!
Re. "Would a Democratic landslide threaten the establishment and its endless gravy train of political contributions? (&) Is the process itself merely created to forever keep the margin of victory too close for anything to fundamentally change, beyond moving slowly, inexorably to the right, through ever increasing corporate control?" - these are a couple of really thought provoking questions.
Could a 'Dem. Landslide' just be co-opted too by The Corporate Oligarchy ? Perhaps a slew of Really Radical Dems. & True Independents in Congress would be better for The US Citizenry but there is NO Option but for the 99% to Organise (& Educ8 & Agit8) from below, if anything is ever going to progress for the the majority of US citizens. Hope all is well with you and all who sail with you 'GK'.
pax, amor et lux ...
Is this THE Gypsy? Here's one to ponder. Obama had the employment numbers in his pocket. Of course he couldn't use them. Remember when the bin Laden caper was happening and he was making jokes with the press?
Romney was so weak with the Tea Party and Evangelicals that he had to stay with the phoney ultra conservative baloney longer than he wanted. The tapes show what he was blowing in the ears of the oligarchs. Them coming out solidified the right wing, but let the cat out of the bag. Nothing else was working with the independents who weren't buying the no details about how he was going to screw them, so there was nothing to lose by executing the Etch-a-sketch maneuver. Grab Obama's positions on healthcare, protecting the middle class taxes, education and goodies for everybody that he can't pay for without raising taxes but he promises not to (lie).
He is convinced the pirouette maneuver is brilliant, so he goes out amped and lies his ass off, and picks up a bunch of style points. Then people turn on the lights and start to read the transcript. Uh Oh! Thirty days? Sugar high never lasts that long. Early voting? Crap. Remember that dance between the bull and the matador?? Is the bull excited and pawing a lot of dust? How does that usually turn out? Hey, welcome back, GK!
Hey brightonsage! Yeah, it's me. I took a long hiatus because it was getting pretty weird around here. Don't know how long I can stay without getting ganged up on by all the right-wing plants, but I'll wait and see. They have made it simply undoable to be here for me in the past.
Interesting comments. I'll get back to them later:)
Welcome back.
A familiar handle is a sea of strangeness.
A sea of strangeness is a very apt description for the state of things generally in the world these days. Good on ya mate.
It is rather surreal at times.
The attention span of some people is akin to a goldfish.
Can't remember what happened in the world yesterday.
"We are swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, where ignorant armies clash by night."
The western Spring is dawning.
It can't come soon enough, for mine.
When the mind at last opens what vistas may it comprehend? That glory always before us, the ever present promise of creation. And - "Adonis, like a star, beacons from the abode where the eternal are."
There's that Mayan calender thing too. Just kidding.
Yeah, that too! LOL!
I just scaled back, while you were gone, for your reasons and we are fighting breast cancer (wife). It will be interesting what they do in about 40 days.
I'm so sorry to hear about your wife. All the best to you both.
Yes, it will be VERY interesting.
Thanks we are through the chemo and are starting radiation. But we will beat this like we beat prostate cancer.
One thing you get out of it is a perspective assessment.
Thanks for you strong participation here. Prayers for you.
you were in jail?
Good read I think, at the time my son said Obama was doing a "rope a dope" I think as the days go on that looks more like the case.
A friend of mine used the same analogy. I agree. It was not a devastating Obama failure. He lost and MSM blames his lackluster (no gaff) performance.
Pres knew the jobs # would take some news, & the Romney lies are taking away from the Romney win.
Pres will give 1st interview after the loss, then Biden will be up. It will be a blip. & a dead cat bounce for Romney.
Next debate is town hall so no need to confront Romney directly. Last debate will be the measure & Obama can let loose & chew him up.
Moooo Ha ha ha ha!
Nate says the debate bump was 2%.
I think the poor Obama showing should re excite the dem base, (another useful ramification).
Romney's numbers are shortlived. Things will settle back and Pres Obama will be better in the coming debates, We know Pres Obama is a better debater. When that happens the crowd will go wild.
I hope!
Who's Nate?
Nate Silver
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/
Right. Very good. Thanx
Yeah, I was just watching Zakaria and he said the same thing, more politely, of course. He even used the Etch-a-Sketch and called Romney a "moderate Republican" now.
He got a 2 point bump and a bunch of statements he can't explain from the debate.
The pundits are trying to ignore the 180 degree wind shift and are saying the employment numbers were already factored in. I am sure they were. That would explain the unnatural sex positions the GOP is exhibiting trying to attribute the cooked in numbers as fraudulent, jiggered and blatant attempts to steal an election that they were going to win by a wide margin using traditional voter suppression, voting machine rigging, the election is already over and you missed it misinformation calls, ballot box stuffing GOP methods that are the source of pride for the whole country.
The GOP continue their attacks on truth (or facts) they really have no responsibility as "leaders". Now they are tossing in economic numbers with climate change, they must lay the ground work because how long can they depend on the entire media world to ignore the simple obvious fact that the rich are too damn rich, and working people ain't getting enough even to live on let alone save for "retirement".
When expos'es are created about politicians that are in the news. When expos'es are created about the news organizations they are presented where? I don't remember seeing them. They want to boost the underdog, knock down the clear leader, so, they can sell more ads. They fail to do balanced reporting (a cliche that now means the opposite, thanks to Fox) boost their bottom line, suck up to their corporate owners by suppressing negative stories about themselves and their owners, and do the same for their advertisers. Report on the effects of industry concentration? I don't think so.
Google "media industry concentration" and see how far down you have to read before you find a story in the main stream media. When you have a little time on your hands. I counted 17 pages of Google listing without finding any.
Consumer's Union has been one of the few sources on this story, they have been covering it for 20 years I think, it is just crazy what the FCC has allowed.
And Congress, and the people. And it ranks where, as an issue in this campaign? And who rants about it in this forum?
I didn't think that Obama failed during that speech.
The Dem's screwed themselves. We had issues on the table and the right wing media picked up the battle cry for private interests and then many of them sided with the private interests either because they also had a vested interest /AND/OR they were worried about being reelected.
That's just recently.
Old time Republican's jumped ship simply because the party swung to far to the right. They went somewhere. It isn't pretty. That's why you can look at some of the silly jack asses that call themselves centrists and shake your head. They are republicans.
I have a hard time seeing them as being able to actually get their shit together enough to throw the election.
barry entire administration is a failure. although gving money to his friends ( solyndra, light squared ) has not been a failure, its been a success at the expense of the taxpayers.
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That is the basis of your argument. Frickin' noob.
Thoughtful response (sarcasm )
That's right, little buckaroo.
I see stupidity had served you well in life good luck with it in your future endeavors.
Ah, you just got out of school. Your mother is going to be pissed when she finds out that you are on her computer.
Nope my mom is with yours so ill be ok for now.
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sorry puppy, im telling the truth. the obama criminal organization lies , cheats and steals.
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roll over , fetch., heel, do whatever an obedient puppy does
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Funny thing is...even when they are caught admitting that they lie, it's NEVER "all over the television and internet". Because they are in the bag for the liars-
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/04/cutter_concedes_5_trillion_attack_on_romney_is_not_true.html?utm_source=co2hog
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/05/cutter-yeah-weve-been-lying-about-the-5-trillion-we-said-romneys-lying-about/
At least now Romney can QUOTE the President's Campaign Manager's own admission in his defense.
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What does Michelle Malkin have to do with the links to a CNN VIDEO of the INTERVIEW in which Obama's campaign manager admits to lying?
Or do you think pfffttt will just cover all their lies to everyone else?
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"In a recent paper, Alex Brill of the American Enterprise Institute pointed out errors that—by the Tax Policy Center's own reasoning—would take that figure down to $41 billion, then to $12 billion, then to a net tax cut. Numerous other critiques have forced the Tax Policy Center to walk back its assumptions or disavow them entirely or change the subject, even if the Obama campaign continues to quote them and the press corps plays dumb."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444138104578030860906863262.html
The conclusion is based on a lot of PURE ASSumptions and is not correct and the President KNOWS it.
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thanks for the backup , betsy
He's never going to accept the truth, much less admit it. His brain simply cannot process the facts about his precious Obama administration.
you're right
Hi GypsyKing, it's really good to see you. I have to weigh in on this- to me it looks like the Republicans are the ones throwing the election. Have you noticed since around the time of the convention there has been no attempt at even pretending to be sane and reasonable? It's as if they could care less who they alienate, which is pretty much everybody. They know they are going to lose but they might as well bring out the brain-washing BS in full force, maybe in hopes that 2014 will give us another four years of obstruction in congress. Who knows why Obama was so low key at the debate, maybe he has a cold, he has better things to do with his time? For a more fun debate, watch Jon Stewart's smackdown with Bill O'Reilly last night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A051B-uPopM
Hi Mary! good to see you too! Given the state of America after it's 30 year freight train wreck with "trickle down," or more accurately "suck up," economics, it's amazing you could get one damed blue dog in Georgia to vote Republican. I don't see a 1.4% lead for Obama (last I saw from the aggragate poll numbers) as being anything but unbelievably bad as far as our prospects for progressive change are concerned - in fact after Bush, such a low margin is downright scary to me, and the Dems didn't help in the debate AT ALL.
I know that is some peoples' only exposure to the candidates. I hate the debates though, it reminds me of wrestling. So contrived. Here's hoping Obama does better in "round 2!"
God, we need to make the Republican Party history! How could anyone EVER vote for that party after the GW Bush facism test?!! GRRR!!!
Then we need to kick out all the closet Republicans in the Democratic Party! We really need to do this if we are to have a future!!!
Yea they're REALLY confused! :) Fight on, GK. See you later.
Welcome back GK. You have a great moniker. Great presence with the simple clear way you articulate the issues.
Now I agree the GOP should be outlawed, as a terrorist and treasonous, shown time and again. How do we get the average American to see this, when they have their brainwashed paradigms and worldviews, where they are told we are the bad guys.
http://mobile.alternet.org/alternet/#!/entry/are-republicans-committing-Utreason,5040a2ec444f678947437373/3
http://www.politicususa.com/republican-war-voting-domestic-terrorist-attack-democracy.html
obama is lost without a script via his teleprompter. what went on last week was not act, thats him.
Good call - the RINO's have been committing public suicide for awhile - what bothers me is the fact that this is not being mentioned by anyone.
Not being mentioned much by the media at least.
No - not by the media not by their democratic opponents - not by third party people - no one but us protesters and not many of us either.
Zendog does a good job :). And catches a lot of flack for it.
ZD has never had a problem with proper focus - nor with being shy about speaking up. {:-])
True, very focused gentleman. Watch that Jon Stewart thing if you get a chance!
Will do. I am gonna tune out for a while now though - Football - even though money is ruining the game - as a former linebacker safety and corner-back - I still have many good memories of the game.
I stated that they put Romney in there, who actually was pretty moderate in the past, because they are happy with the legislation that Obama has passed. Its a perfect extension of the last 30 years.
There really isnt too much campaigning going on by the SEnate or the House, so Im wondering if they either are sick of it all too, or they know the next two years are going to be hell?
I think they're just under worked and over paid. We wouldn't want to add anything to their plates would we.
Thanks for the link - O'Reilly huh funny such a tall individual yet such a small person.
Jon made some good points could have done a better job - I think he did not do as well as he could have because he let his emotions lead.
Is it possible that Obama keeps making mistakes to make the Election Look Close?
I used to think Democrats Blink when attacked by Republican (in a militant Fashion). Meaning I think Democrats look flat footed in congress when they run into the stone wall of resistance, sharp criticism, strong retoric, etc. Seems like all the spending in the Department of Defense, spending for War, use of torture, errosion of private infomations and individual rights ... could have been faught to a stand still, and early end to war, and at least a neutral outcome.
Now I am not so sure. After watching Obama Coast the last 2-3 years... I'm thinking there is little difference in foreign policy and defense spending between parties. In fact seems they agree on letting businesses do what ever they want on Wall Street and in Leveraged Buy Outs. And we know Washington Politicans do very well with campaign contributions and Lobbyist.
I'm with you in that Rebpulicans seem to be Nazis intent on getting big salaries and incomes for themselves and don't care a hill of beans about those losing wages, elderly, sick, minorities, etc. Oh and of course Republican want to keep their tax loopholes.
Hey, welcome back GypsyKing! Nice to see you. Hope you have been well.
I've no idea what's up with the Dems except for the fact that they have been bought by corporations the same way the Reps have been. Can't trust any of them for that reason.
Great to see you're still here!
I basically agree. Still it seems that getting the Dems in, and then forcing them to make fundamental changes - money out of elections, sustainable energy, higher wages, ect., ect., is our ONLY viable course of action. That means vote, for starters.
What a novel idea, voting in a democracy. Do you think voter apathy and disengagement have finally run their course? Do you think that people are waking up to massive Big$-R swindle that has created our electoral negligence? Is it too late to register and participate?
In Minnesota you can still register on the same day as the election at your designated polling station.
Time is running out elsewhere.
I suspect many people don't realize it.
www.gottavote.org/en/?choose-state=true
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDTT1yRNsFE&feature=player_embedded
Not everybody knows when, where and how to vote. But everybody needs to WTFU!
That's the right prescription IMHO. Then get the money out of all aspects of influencing governance at national, state and local levels, executive, Congress and the courts.
The problem is too many Americans still believe the illusion, like you do, that the democrats can be made to change once they have been elected. This is particularly alarming considering the fact that they have already been in office for the last few years, so there is really no reason at all to believe they will suddenly be made to change. The fact is, they are puppets of the 1%. They will not change, not for the better at least. They might change for the worse.
Occupy will only start making sense and taking off when people stop having hopes and dreams that the democrats can be made to change, and realize once and for all that the system is broke and that the people themselves are the only ones who can change things for the better.
Stop believing in the democrats, and start believing in Occupy.
Dems don't march lockstep like Cons do.
They don't unquestioningly obey authoritarian figures like Cons do.
Dems don't believe corporations are people like Cons do.
And Dems believe in collective bargaining (Unions) like Cons don't.
(Just to name a few big differences.)
There are always bad apples in any group of people, so don't fall for the old GOP con that both parties are the same, the exception does not make the rule. Replace Big$ turnout with ours, sweep out the DINOs, and let's make some long overdue PROGRESS!!
"And Dems believe in collective bargaining (Unions) like Cons don't."
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/4f1wygnt1uy2gfvn7osftq.gif
TR@SHY
We have had divided government for decades. No party has had enough support to have a mandate or even an actionable agenda. Yes, a party can be forced to live up to it's mandate, we've just forgotten how to do that.
PS Lets look for some more scripted events to influence the election, say an American drone mysteriously shot down in Israilli air space to alienate Jewish voters from the Democratic Party before there's time for the facts to come out. Like they say, "the skies the limit!" I don't think most of us have even yet caught up to the power of coordinated action on the part of the 1% even now.
GK, it is great to see you back here.
What this particular election comes down to, imho, is not so much a vote for Obama as a vote against Romney (I have said this before, but compared to Romney I think Obama is political Christ).
Having said that, I view keeping the rightwing out of power by using the Dems to do that only a temporary measure that buys time for Occupy to get better organized and effective. There might even be some small chance of making some progressive changes if all Dem congress and Obama can stay in power long enough (but this might be a long shot).
Many on this site now advocate complete abandonment of the 2-party system, and that view is certainly understandable (I was pissed off with it so far back I voted for Ross Perot). But I have argued, and still do, that until we can reach a more egalitarian political system people need to continue to vote and not stay home or pout thinking they are taking some kind of moral stand by not participating. Imho, that isn't a viable strategy, and could possibly result in Romney being elected (which, imho, would be disasterous for the middle/lower class for all the reasons that are usually cited).
Hello Friend, Have missed you. As always, good post. Best Regards
Thanks Nevada. Glad to see you hanging in there!!! :)
I haven't read everything here but I'm inclined to agree that it is possible that they're trying to make it close so that people don't think they can risk "throwing away their vote" by supporting a grass roots candidate that hasn't sold out to the corporations so that the candidate that people from both sides hates doesn't win.
We need a major alternative party showing if not victory to let them know that they can't sell out for ever!
Both corporate candidates are playing chicken with our democracy environment and economy and the differences on important things are trivial compared to the things they agree on which they get wrong.
Welcome back to the forum GK. BTW - good question ( post ) as this seems to have been the strangest year as well as the strangest presidency ever in politics.
Thanks for all the dedication to the cause DKA! Yes, we have ourselves a fine conundrum here, don't we?
I do not really know what to make of it all - the only thing I am happy about is the awakening of so many people and the movements to address making a better world for all.
Welcome back GypsyKing! Its great to see you again.
Thanks Renneye! I see by your user name and your "score" that they've been punishing you pretty good for excercizing free speech. LOL!
Glad you're still hanging in there:)
Ha! You got it! Not so good for them that I have a real problem with authority. It'll take a lot more than that to get rid of me!
Besides...humanity is too precious...I can't quit her!
Don't get too caught up in the media dream, remember these things are usually pretty decisive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTipZDx16QE
Remember swiftboat? The Democrats have had a really strange way of going all mushy at the end. It's like one minute they're riding Secretariet, and the next poof - they're stuck on an old toothless nag - like they're victims of the world's worst fairy godmother!
Could it be they hope they win, but not big enough to have to change anything?
There are about 30% of Americans that are no longer influenced by facts, the only "change" that matters is getting their influence from public policy. The GOP and the cons have spent at least 30 years creating this group and their extreme position on taxes keeps them pure, as no one can actually look at America and say the rich have too little and the poor have too much, but every Republican can.
They'll change just enough to make you believe they are changing things for the better. Why do you think Obama officially supports Occupy, and what do you think that even means? Do you really believe he favors the change towards anarcho-communism and the idea of empowering people? Of course not, if he did he would have already invited members of Occupy to start changing the system. He only says that to calm people and get them on his side. The democrats are plurocrats just like the republicans. They serve the 1% and always will.
TR@SHY
I can tell you that a City Council member came to OccTampa and expressed her support. That was awesome. Rocky went to OccTampa when he was in Tampa, although that was pretty scattered at that point with the military state they created here.
"Biden laughed at him? Of course, he did. The profound ignorance Ryan displayed was so terrifying that it calls into question Romney's judgment for putting this unqualified greenhorn on the ticket at all."
MORE: http://occupywallst.org/forum/vp-debate-2012-the-real-paul-ryan-is-bad-for-ameri/
Are the changes in the polls credible based on Romney's "performance" in the first debate? Hardly. So what exactly is really going on?
i was arguing the point the other day that who ever looses the election, will start the revolution, ows or the "tea party". i still stand by this argument. things are at such a tipping point, we are primed for some major change. little do either side realize how much they have in common. http://vote-pedia.com #getinvolved #makeaDifference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDTT1yRNsFE&feature=player_embedded
http://wtfu2012.com/
You know you've had a bad four years when you're polling neck & neck with Mitt Romney of all people...
I think they've been throwing the election for four years, had they so much as tried to deliver on that hope & change stuff people might actually be excited about voting for them...
If Romney wins will dems go along with his bad ideas like they did with Bush?
http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2012/10/04/updated-election-forecasting-model-still-points-romney-win-university
So many have talked about getting money out of politics. Elections are heavily influenced by the TV ads. I know it went away a long time ago, but whatever happened to equal time on the air? That needs to come back, and not be whoever has the most money that can buy the most airtime. For political elections, airtime needs to be freely provided by TV and radio stations, to be limited, say, to 1% of airtime or less. Politicians can then decide how they want to use that time either with ads or whatever.
No it is known as Hope A Dope.
Looks like conspiracy theorizing to me. Where is Thrashy when he's really needed?
Thought is called conspiracy theory when it flies against the interests of established power. When they start screaming "conspiracy theory" you know you're getting warm. LOL!
You think the Democrats want election reform? They got a billion dollars in this campaign. They won't change anything - we need to change it - and we need to take over that party to change it. Witness the Tea Baggers and the INSANITY they have driven the Repubs to. Well, maybe we can do the same with sanity. It's worth a try.
I don't know if the Democrats really even want Citizens United repealed. I know that it is giving a big edge to the Republicans in this current go round. that's partly why I am going to vote for Obama. To help repudiate and even humiliate the moneyed ones who have decided that they are going to kick the black guy out of the White House because his rhetoric bothers them.
You mean like this, Israel shooting down an unidentified drone:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-06/israel-shoots-down-unidentified-drone-over-its-airspace
I mean, for once and all, that the words "conspiracy theory," in their present context, are merely an Orwellian concept created to supress debate and give people an excuse to dismiss ideas without doing the intellectual work of aquiring an informed opinion.
Promoting that Orwellian concept is TR@SHY'S main assignment on this forum.
There is no substitute for informed opinion derived from legitimate (not faux news) sources.
Obama did it!!!!! He's trying to start a war with Isreal now. Where is that Wesley Clark video when I need it.?
It was Obama!!!
Really? Thats what you are bringing to this?
It wasn't Obama?
Maybe it is part of the plan to invade Iran.
We don't know!
They already had a landslide in 08 and Wall St was very happy with the results, so I dont think it matters very much.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/57856066@N02/8067254124/in/photostream
His debating performance will be better in the second debate.
Perhaps. My point is that I believe the insiders in both parties have a vested interest in very close elections. That reduces the prospects of changing a corrupt system that feeds the bank accounts of both parties. The best way to stop that is a huge Democratic turnout. Crazy? You bet!
Having a huge "Democratic turnout" is not only unlikely, but would not be helpful in having systemic change. Both parties answer to big monied interests. Until that changes, nothing dramatic in terms of having real' change will happen.
Begging the question. Change HOW?
"Change"? Certainly not at the voting booth, not systemic change anytime soon, anyway. This will happen at the grass roots level. Organizing with the help of seasoned organizers, reaching out to the masses, educating them, resistance and direct actions is the most efficacious path to true reform. On a personal level, everyone here should be doing their best toward the goal of awakening people in their every day lives. Part of that process has to be getting them off the MSM. Voting may be a way to stave off some of the short term harm for a while, but other than that, it is a diversion that leads to a dead end.
A lot of people believe in divided government(duopoly) so it's in their interest to keep it fairly close.
You got it! And the truth is that pushing the political equasion to the left IS THE ONLY way out of this Gordian Knot. So we must prevent the Democrats from once again sabotaging a DECISIVE victory.
ugg
couldn't do single payer health care with a house and senate majority
Please Matt, give us a plan that can be deciphered - one that doesn't include too much dreaming or a perplexity of imponderables - and we will be glad to entertain it.
PS
glad to see you
general strike on election day
so more people vote
I'm in.
Obama never had 60 D senators
I would blame Reid's not ending the filibuster to allow 51 votes to carry it
If Obama wins & senate stays D - Ried can chuck the filibuster in 2013
that might break grover
This makes no sense. A large turnout for any party would only indicate to that party that the people are behind it. The party would not be encouraged to change, it would be encourage to stay just as it is since that's how it got so many votes in the first place.
That doesn't reflect a knowledge of how politics in America actually works. You think the Tea Baggers didn't have an effect on the Republican Party? What You are saying doesn't make any sense. Please don't take that personally - I like a good argument.
you mean that his handlers will shoot him up with more drugs?
How could it be scripted - Obama didn't have his teleprompter to read from?
It's not hard to throw a debate. Bodylanguage alone is enough. A Democratic landslide would empower those who want to root corruption out of the political process. The question is, to what degree the entire process is controlled by corporate interest? Is this an election, or simply a spectacle with a pre-determind outcome? Does either party really want change?
We need to push that process back towards the power of the people. That is why we must not let the Democratic Party prevent a Democratic landslide. If that seems absured it is because the process has been reduced to absurdity.
Why would the two major parties want change?
No they don't. That's clear enough. The question is how do we force it? In my opinion a Democratic landslide is our only hope of doing so given the great power arrayed against all change, both from within and without of the establshed political process.
It seems that the Democratic Party is no more interested in that outcome (a Democratic landslide) than the Republicans are.
Make them speak our language. You're either part of the 99% or 1%. There's no middle.
Yes, but in order to do that - to have the political power to do that - we MUST hand the Democrats a victory descisive enough that they are forced to actually carry out their mandate!!!
How do you like all this? Weird enough for you???
If neither political party really wants to see any true change, which I agree they don't, what good is a Democratic landslide?
They held the Presidency, the Senate, and the House for two years no real change was seen. And, as was saw in 2006 and 2010, when the country takes a big step either left or right, it usually regresses to the mean very quickly (ie the Dem takeover in 2006 and the rise of and success of the Tea Party in 2010). Ultimately, the people of the US are collectively moderate (as our system defines it) and our elected representatives will represent that.
It has to do with our ability to influence the process. Sadly, it seems that we must first elect Democrats and the force them to radicalize their platform. That means ACTIVE ENGAGEMENT on the part of citizens in the process. Apathy had been our undoing. We can no longer afford it.
I think you would then see even more radicalizing of the right and a repeat of 2010 in 2014. The more radical either of the two parties becomes, the more attractive the other one is to mainstream voters and that is why nothing ever gets done. Most Americans don't want radical change and are very moderate in their political views.
What most Americans do want is a less corrupt government that is not controlled by a few super wealthy people. If we want to see true change, it needs to be the parties coming together for a common cause that they both can agree on and go from there. Any more radicalization by either party just leads to more divisions among Americans.
Did you say, "parties coming together?" I'm still laughing.
The reason they don't is because of the radicalization that you propose. A radical far left Democratic party will lead to Republican majorities in the next election. Just look at recent history. American voters (you know, the 99%) don't want radical.
What you are saying, essentially, is that Americans are happy with the status-quo. I'm not so convinced.
They must be or the vast majority would be protesting in the streets. I haven't seen anyone protesting on my street so they must be happy.
" I haven't seen anyone protesting on my street so they must be happy."
Is that disingenuousness or speciousness?
I am not saying that. Obviously Americans want to see their government being run for the people by the people, not by the super wealthy.
Let me ask you something though. If America wanted its government to take a radical step in one direction or another, why are we constantly replacing one party with the other in Congress. 2006 and 2010 are just two recent examples of America taking rather large steps in opposite directions only 4 years apart from each other. How would you explain that other than Americans, as a whole, are moderate in their political beliefs?
The problem is manipulation. We have been seeing a masterful spectacle of the manipulation of public opinion in this, as in all election cycles.
Americans aren't moderate in their beliefs at all, what they are is brainwashed.
Nothing will change until some political party demonstrates it's ability to stand against the corporate takeover of America. If they do that they will be unstopable - but neither party wants it because they can't lead that horse to the corall. That example is what they are desperately trying to prevent from ever happening. Our only hope, I believe therefore is to see through this effort on the part of both parties, actually put the Democratic Party firmly in control and then hold their feet over the fire until they do so. I simply see no other way to get from where we are to where we must be. The only way is RADCAL involvement in the Democratic Party process - a takeover of that party by the people.
Let me put this clearly so there will be no misunderstanding. What we have is, unfortunately, a two party system - a fact which in itself limits the ability of the democratic process as a means of addressing the needs of citizens. (So far so good for corporate power).
One party, the Republican Party, is the out-front organ of 1% corporate power. The other is supposed to represent the people the "demos" against concentrated power, but it has become corrupted.
After all the stream, the torrent, the catorract of words, given some knowledge of human psychology, the facts are actually easy to understand:
The Democrats will not represent the people, but instead (given human nature) represent themselves unless we force them to represent the people. To work through reforming the Democratic Party is the only option because it is the only option. It is literally the last existing mechanism through which the people of America have any remaining access to power.
We must have a Democratic landslide, or the interests of the people will continue to be frozen out of the halls and mechanisms of power.
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No, Obama is really that stupid. The media just hid it from the public
Yeah, Obama actually wan't Obama all this time. The media just had a body double that they trained in Siberia. Where do you guys get this stuff??? I suggest informal logic. The truth is out there. LOL!!!
they guy reads from a teleprompter. when he goes off the pre written words, he shows his true self,................... as in , if you have a business you didnt build that. that went over really well with all the people that DID build their business's, that made a success of their lives due to their own hard work and drive. obama isnt the president , jarrett is , he dances to her tune.