Forum Post: Another Obama Solar Company Goes Bankrupt ...Taxpayers Lose $2 BILLION?.....
Posted 12 years ago on April 2, 2012, 4:43 p.m. EST by F350
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By Associated Press
WILMINGTON, Del. — A California solar energy company that was unable to meet a deadline for an Energy Department loan guarantee last year has sought bankruptcy protection in Delaware.
Solar Trust of America’s Chapter 11 filing on Monday listed assets between $1 million and $10 million, and liabilities between $10 million and $50 million.
The filing comes amid the ongoing controversy surrounding Solyndra, a solar firm that received a half-billion dollar federal loan and was touted by the Obama administration before declaring bankruptcy last year.
Solar and wind are tempting for obvious reasons, they give the appearance of free energy (even though of course free energy is, at this point, scientifically impossible). I've read a lot of studies and commentary regarding alternatives like thorium reactors (for electrical production), and it's surprising to me that there isn't more robust support behind this idea.
I mean, to produce the same electricity a single thorium reactor can produce, would require wind turbines or solar panels spread out over hundreds of square miles. Thorium reactors cannot meltdown, there is no real proliferation risk, and the problem of waste storage is eliminated. We have enough recoverable thorium in this country to last over a thousand years (giving us plenty of breathing room to research more futuristic technologies like fusion).
I wonder why there's all this focus on alternative technologies that can only, at best, meet 10 or 15% of our energy needs (but at a huge cost in terms of land usage), and why we spend so little time talking about technologies that could solve our ENTIRE problem, which are perfectly clean and safe? It isn't because our government doesn't know about thorium, indeed it was our government (in the 1960's) who researched thorium in the first place, and demonstrated its effectiveness. So I wonder, why all this focus on second rate solutions?
Assuming our government isn't completely oblivious to the relevant science (and I think that's a very reasonable assumption), then it begs the question, what other motives do they have in distracting the public with less than ideal solutions that would never be capable of solving the bulk of our energy problems? When in doubt, follow the money.
Good post, I don't usually agree with you, but this, and the post below, we are nearly on the same page...
One potential problem I see with wind and solar (in massive quantity) are the unknown effect on environmental factors....
The sun puts out a massive amount of energy, but as massive as it is, the daily absorption of the earth is a finite quantum, if we begin taking massive amounts of that energy out of the natural cycle of photosynthesis, evaporation/precipitation cycles, and warming of earth and water...not to mention many living organisms......what will the effect be? that is question we do not know the answer to...
and with wind we have the possible disruption of natural weather patterns and systems through the diverted force and power of the wind being sapped off to turn the turbines......
there are a few available alternative fuel sources that could power much of our transportation infrastructure (which is something wind and solar don't do) switchgrass ethanol, Hemp and Cottonseed Diesel, methane collection from livestock and landfills...etc......
but the use of funds in the marginal alternatives which, I agree, aren't a real producer of the needs we currently have, is a bit wasted, especially while punishing the energy industries we need to bridge the gap to get there.....is a penny wise and pound foolish.....
I'm not sure if solar panels would have this effect (unless we were using solar panels in a way that prevented sunlight from reaching plants), and solar panels are effective in some (albeit limited) applications (for the most part, the applications they're used in now, small things that need its own power supply and use very little energy).
Energy from plants is also a viable idea, but we would have to make sure that where we're displacing other plants (like native grasses, trees, etc.) with alcohol fuel feed stocks, the plants we use have more surface volume (to sequester CO2) compared to what we're replacing (and there is a mathematical method to do this using fractal geometry).
However, thorium is a "we can do it now" solution. We can start by replacing the uranium reactor cores in our nuclear plants with thorium cores, and then somehow funding the small handful of companies out there who are developing things like small (sort of pint sized) thorium reactors (that can be deployed in a wide variety of applications). Gasification of municipal waste (to produce alternative liquid fuels) would probably be more effective in terms of building the initial infrastructure we need to get this thing going (then later on, once we have a plug and play infrastructure, we can start thinking about the feasibility of energy crops). Obviously, we don't want energy crops displacing food crops (or grown on land where food crops can be grown). Not a big problem (since plants like switchgrass can grow under virtually any conditions).
Nice try to poo on green tech. Try looking at the reports that you as well as others have placed on this forum to try to debunk Global Warming and you will find that even with all of the filtering effects of our atmosphere that the reflected energy coming straight back off of the earths surface is enormous.
Wind turbines affecting the winds flow? are you serious? The wind blows the fan blades turn as the wind moves on UN-diminished in it's nature same as blowing through the tree tops only meeting with less blockage as met through a leafy tree.
Solar panels stealing energy or somehow increasing temperature? As stated above the reflected energy off of the earths surface is enormous it is all reflected back to space and wasted so if it is captured and used it will not be missed from the equation as for the heat it has always been there the difference now is that the energy coming in with the light waves will be used instead of wasted.
Good post,I do agree. Hopefully the reasons for such technology not being implemented currently are logistical or at least valid and not based on corruption and other negatives.
There is no significant logistical issues. I mean, we even have the ability to replace a uranium reactor core with a thorium core (and even though many of our nuclear reactors are reaching the end of their useful life, we're still not discussing thorium in a serious way, although there is some discussion of thorium within the energy department and other parts of government). If we're unable to replace our aging nuclear reactors with clean technology, it will be disastrous in terms of increased CO2 emissions. Nuclear now provides for 20% of our energy needs, there's no feasible way solar or wind could replace nuclear power (in most cases at least), and unless we begin looking at solutions like thorium, our only other alternatives will be coal or natural gas.
But thorium is only one of a family of very good solutions that don't get much air play. Butanol from syngas (and syngas produced through gasification), would give us the ability to produce liquid transportation fuel using garbage as a feed stock (that we otherwise dispose of in landfills). Butanol fuel can be used in cars and light trucks without any engine modification. Yet, even environmentalists ignore these solutions. Very perplexing to say the least.
Very informative,didn't know of "Butanol". Thanks.
China has just undercut the green energy market. It is always hard to compete with slave labor, and resources extracted with no environmental protections in place. The race to the bottom, in a global production market is what you are seeing.
But just keep your partisan attacks going, you help bring people to OWS!
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Too much optimism can be foolish. You're in need of a reality check.
Says the persona with -52 personal rating, posting partisan drivel, with nothing original to offer. Both parties are the same tools of the 1%. The more you try to sht on the dems the more people realize the truth, that the pretend 'two-party' system does not work for us, it works for the 1%.
Thanks for all your efforts, keep at it, I know you can help push more people to the same conclusion; that this type of partisan bickering is just a distraction from the true problem, the 1% controlling OUR planet. (and doing a sht job of it too!)
The 99% vs 1% narrative is a contrivance whose sole existence is meant to distract and confuse the populace. OWS is a tool of the Left to aid in the bullshitting of the public,to take the focus off what your fearless Leader and the Demonrats are doing to fuck this country and Constitution.
You're just a foot soldier in the cause and probably among the cannon fodder. You just happen to be a little more vocal than the rest.
In all honesty the Left has succeeded with this distraction,not to the degree they would have preferred obviously but none the less.
Obama owned the company? That's peculiar. Small businesses are going bankrupt left and right because of the shit economy, not caused by Obama, but by the 1%, who are the only ones that have gained from the economic collapse.
You've digested and assimilated your propaganda and probably passed with high scores in all your indoctrination classes. Good job,Obama should be hiring you shortly.
And you're working for Romney's campaign, right?
???
Let's remember that Solyndra and this loan program started under Bush and were passed by a republican majority congress as well as supported by democrats.
"The Energy Department's loan guarantee program was created as part of the Energy Policy Act of 2005, passed by a Republican-controlled Congress and signed by Bush."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/nov/17/david-plouffe/solyndra-loan-george-w-bush-david-plouffe/
This failure is crony capitalism at it's finest. As much as I do not like Obama as a president due specifically to his war crimes... I like the idea of investing in solar power which could potentially get us off oil or at least more expensive forms of electricity. It sucks that this and solyndra failed. With a loan like that, there needs to be a full investigation as to what happened and where the money went. Solyndra also had over a billion invested into it privately outside of the government loan. Fraud occured... and if Obama can be linked to the fraud then your criticism will be true. Until then, an investigation needs to be done and the fraud needs to be found. My guess is the frauds are the people with all the money.
The Bush administration denied the solyndra loan as one of the last acts of his presidency......
and there are no multi-hundreds of millions of dollar debacles from the Bush administration handing out money to former campaign financiers as payola....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTQ1WOC9RgY
Since the numbers quoted are from FLAKESnews, not the Post, I don't have a problem using mediamatters.
http://mediamatters.org/research/201204020017
And how many billions did American tax payers lose giving tax breaks to the oil companies and GE etc etc etc
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Typical Demonrat,you feel entitled to everybody else's money.
Typical Rs You cant answer a simple question -
and reply with a lie.
How long were you trained by fox & alec ?
When have ever seen them answer a simple question?
None of them ever do.
OK - you got me - I'll confess
I have such a strong disdain for lies and liars
( even if they are just doing the job they are paid for ) And, I confess - I get a kick out of calling them liars
but don't tell anyone!
For over a year, I have been nagging people like Chris Mattews and Ed Schultz, and Rachel Maddow to use the words lie and liar
I doubt it was my doing - but they have been !
" American tax payers lose giving tax breaks"
WTF,are just fucking stupid naturally or do you work hard at it?
You may not know this but the Govt. deals with tax law.
American tax payers lose when the Govt. piss's away $$$Billions on "Green" Utopian wet dreams that fail and leave a trail of economic destruction behind them.
American tax payers lose when your Messiah spends $$$Billions on a stimulus slush fund that creates nothing in the way of jobs but funnels $$$ to his butt buddy Unions.
Financing failing electric car Manufacturing is yet another loss for American tax payers.
The list is endless.
Perhaps if your Messiah hadn't crashed the Worlds economy, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Your premise is flawed as usual.
Under your Messiah, the economy did crash.
Or perhaps you believe it didn't?
" the Worlds economy" "the economy"
???????
As I said you premise is flawed.
Can't answer a simple question?
The premiss of this thread is what's flawed, as is your thinking on many of the subjects you've posted on.
You are welcome to your own opinion,not your own facts. These Green Corps are failing on our dime,you don't give a shit apparently.
You still didn't answer the question.
Here's a clue to your pointless rant. They ALL fail on our dime, every single one of them.
Now, would you care to answer to your own lies in the thread title?
Take a gander then STFU.
http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100086255.557671.433&gen=1&mailing_linkid=49235
There is one smoking gun exposed to a desperate and failing economy. An economy which sees failing business and family in whole lots. Take a real good look because this is another aspect of WallStreet that is fucking everyone.
Take a look blind marcher supporter of greed and corruption. Then quietly slink off somewhere to huddle alone in your misery and filth.
What does this have to do with your Utopian in Chief giving our tax money to pay off his Green supporters with huge loans with the fore knowledge of eminent financial disaster?
Answer: Nothing,you'd rather change the subject.
By the way,if you didn't know Sanders is a Leftist,Socialist POS that belongs back in Stalin's Russia.
You have nothing you never had anything. You just like to spew shit and throw mud. You are worthless except as an interactive display of ignorance hate despair and blind marching support of the greed and corruption that is destroying life, all life.
Go away somewhere away from humanity and look in a mirror you will find plenty that is disgusting there. You will also have an appreciative audience.
You're having a hard time focusing on the topic at hand,don't you?
You're meandering off into a lot of Drama and hyperbolic fantasy. This isn't a good thing,seek help.
What color is the sky in your world from what direction does your sun rise?
You are the one not only having a problem dealing with reality - you are having a difficult time even recognizing reality.
You should find help - does your family know that you are like this? If not perhaps you should talk with them and let them get you some help.
Again,the topic is Obama's failing Green industries with tax payers money in the $$$$ Billions. I'm getting the idea you don't really give a fuck,you seem to only care about yourself and your little world.
Again and one more time - SFB
The economy is failing due to the actions of WallStreet toxic criminal products and practices. This includes their manipulation of the fossil fuel market.
Take a gander then STFU.
http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100086255.557671.433&gen=1&mailing_linkid=49235
There is one smoking gun exposed to a desperate and failing economy. An economy which sees failing business and family in whole lots. Take a real good look because this is another aspect of WallStreet that is fucking everyone.
Reality deal with it. The rest of us are. Your denial would be funny if it were not so sickening.
Take a look blind marcher supporter of greed and corruption. Then quietly slink off somewhere to huddle alone in your misery and filth.
Why are you trying desperately to change the subject?
Okay,I'll bite.
Give me a specific example of a?:
"WallStreet toxic criminal products"
And it's relationship to Obama's failed Green industries?
Nope do your own research this forum has been all over these issues - there is plenty for you to see that has been neatly laid-out on numerous posts. You like to distract as well as deny.
You are not the 1st of your kind to stop in here ( this forum ) and all of you put together are almost as smart as a box of rocks. Do your own looking and with-hold your negative comments until you actually know what you are talking about.
Sorry I don't take orders from you,if you can't supply a simple answer to that rather absurd "WallStreet toxic criminal products" abstract then you must be trolling and not trying to add something relevant to the topic.
Oh smarty pants.
You NEVER clearly answer a simple question, nor admit when one of your premisses are beaten into the ground.
So how in the hell are all green industries the property of Obama?
What-ever. I mean toxic instruments was about the only UN-denied fact of the cause of the meltdown that no one has disputed. Triple A ratings given to junk just prior to implosion. But hey you have your head so far up your ass you can probably see your tonsils or the scars where they used to be.
Relevance? Slapping you upside your block-head is all the relevance needed in talking with you. You get more steadfastly stupid as time goes by.
How much did taxpayers lose on the Halliburton wars? Pure BS from the corporate BS factory, but that's okay, Ford 350's karma score says it all. Troll thread.
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this is terrible, it reminds me of the money squandered to rescue wall st. politicians are not to be trusted, dem or rep!
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You can always spot the Rs
Trained so well by their foxian masters-
and George Orwell
take the words of truth and twist them into a lie "Obama Solar Company" IS A LIE
you could say this goes back to hitler's big lies, but it must go back much further
how many lemmings were kept controlled by
"you will be happy and wealthy when you are dead"
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this is what happens under central planning. This is but a small taste of what is to come.
Here's the governments answer to Chinas Solar Panel imports - impose a "duty tax" on their imports.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-imposes-low-duties-chinese-194915768.html
And another solar company getting ready to go under
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11464345/1/first-solar-fslr-sp-intraday-laggard.html?cm_ven=RSSFeed
Cool,keep'em coming.
Here's some more really good information about our Obimiations investment in Solar Energy
The government lost a combined $696 million in subsidies to now-bankrupt companies Solyndra (solar cells), Ener 1 (lithium-ion batteries), and Beacon Power (energy storage). Obama’s stimulus law allocated $90 billion to green-jobs incentives and research. During the 2008 campaign, Obama promised that $150 billion in federal investments would yield 5 million new jobs. The White House progress report released last week said that investments to date have created 224,500 jobs.
Despite the bankruptcies and the underwhelming job-creation statistics, the White House believes that most Americans support new energy technologies and see through the GOP’s call to expand domestic exploration.
Here's the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-long-game-energy-125837207.html 3/23/2012
Here's another one on the way out -
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_20291837/abound-solar-looking-rebound-following-longmont-layoffs-production?source=rss
fast paced technological development and free market forces at work, my friend. no single person can predict how new developments in an extremely competitive field will go, let alone be held accountable.
You are right however I disagree in the sense that Obama has given so much money out to the Solar Panel industry that they are falling by the wayside left and right because of "too much competition".
Just like the big box stores knocked out the mom and pop stores now we have to live with their pricing. Same thing is happening here.
The only difference is that in the private sector it didn't cost the taxpayer - whereas in the "government sector" it cost the taxpayers millions of dollars. That's the difference.
Nothing wrong with competition in the private sector but when it comes to government giving free handouts - no one gives a damm about being responsible.
and the free handouts to wallstr.? the money given to the solar industry pales in comparison, don't you think?
Thanks,that makes about 5 or more doesn't it? I've lost count.
This is Obama's idea of stimulus spending,flushing our tax $$$ down the crapper.
Here's some more information to digest regarding the Solar Insustry Grants
House Oversight Committee Reports $14.5B DOE Green Loan Program Train Wreck 3/29/2012
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/03/29/house-oversight-committee-reports-14-5b-doe-green-loan-program-train-wreck/?feed=rss_home
The republicans not only made him do it, they got all the money.
Just ask the local forum DNC idiots.
Absolutely no blame shall be cast, even in the general direction of any demoncraps.
lova ya gumby( damnit) !
No shit,you nailed it. The Teflon Messiah always walks away clean.
No problem at all because we have no other alternatives. Natural Gas at $25 a barrel is a no go. Keep investing, it's just the people's money.