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Forum Post: All We Are Saying, Is Put Them In Jail

Posted 1 year ago on Sept. 21, 2013, 9:19 a.m. EST by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I spoke to many people in early October three years ago. I noticed there were large numbers of Ron Paul supporters there. There were people there apparently from all walks of life. I spoke to numerous people who claimed to be well heeled,or rich. I do not know if any of the people I spoke to were wealthy, although I know that some of those were at Zucotti Park during the first Occupy Encampment. Everyone I spoke to was enthusiastic about the idea of holding accountable those who instigated and accelerated the Worldwide Economic crash in late 2008.

Here are thirteen names of people who need to entirely forfeit all of their assets and be imprisoned for twenty years for TREASON: Jaime Dimon John Corzine Richard Fuld Timothy Geitner Eric Holder Hank Paulson Alan Greenspan Angelo Mozilo Franklin Raines Phil Gramm Wendy Lee Gramm Larry Summers

These are just a few of the principals. Many people who worked with the above named as senior staff also need to be held accountable. Executives at the ratings agencies, the insurance industry, regulatory agencies and politicians are all complicit and should experience asset forfeiture, fines and prison, along with the entire senior management of Goldman Sachs. Please feel free to post the names of any persons who you consider to be guilty of fraud, criminal negligence or treason with regard to the Economic Crash of 2008.

I feel that prosecution of responsible criminals is one of the original demands of Occupy, and that it may be possible for accountability to become a reality,along with severe punishment for some of the guilty parties.The message is simple: PUT THEM IN JAIL.

66 Comments

66 Comments


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[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''The Looting of America'', by Andre Damon :

''The 400 richest people in America increased their wealth by 17 percent in 2013, with their collective hoard rising from $1.7 trillion to just over $2 trillion. The wealth of these 400 individuals is more than twice the amount necessary to cover the federal budget deficit, which is being used as the occasion for slashing Food Stamps, education, housing assistance, and health care programs.

''The redistribution of wealth is the product of a quite deliberate class policy, undertaken at the highest levels of the state, and spearheaded by the Obama administration. The financial elite has been given virtually unlimited sums of money, while wages and benefits for workers have been slashed and budget deficits have served as the occasion for demanding the closure of schools, mass layoffs of government workers and cuts in social services.''

Want some more names for the list tharry as well an insight into the build up to the Grand Larceny of The 2008 GFC ? If so, please see :

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 2 points by jemcgloin (63) from Staten Island, NY 1 year ago

$2 trillion dollars is the wealth they admit to. I am sure it is many times that.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''The small handful of oil and Wall Street groups behind the Tea Party, groups like FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, were all front organizations for the billionaire oil tycoons and banksters who wrecked the economy.

''The billionaires behind these groups weren't trying to save democracy, they were trying to hijack it, and they were rich and powerful enough to be able to essentially buy their own politicians and dupe a few thousand "American" activists to do their bidding.'' from :

So not only do they go to huge trouble to hide their wealth but also use it against The 99%. Ergo, as 'Trashyharry' says ... ''All we are saying - is put them in jail'' - and for further reasons why, please see :

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ....

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Bien fait,mon ami...merci.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Recovery Hype : American Capitalism's Weapon of Mass Distraction'', by Prof. Richard Wolff :

''You don't have to be a Marxist to see how the 1% tries to fool us that we too are sharing in their renewed wealth. But it helps.'' Happy forum-join day, 29/9 ! Alors, salut maintenant et a' plus tard.

minima maxima sunt ...

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Alea iacta est...This I knew like a thunderclap when I stood on Broadway,looking down at the former Merril Lynch plaza-liberated and transformed by #OWS...

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Indeed 'the die is cast' and everywhere, there are ''The Sparks of Rebellion'', by Chris Hedges :

''We must develop a revolutionary theory that is not reliant on the industrial or agrarian muscle of workers. Most manufacturing jobs have disappeared, and, of those that remain, few are unionized. Our family farms have been destroyed by agro-businesses. Monsanto and its Faustian counterparts on Wall Street rule. They are steadily poisoning our lives and rendering us powerless. The corporate leviathan, which is global, is freed from the constraints of a single nation-state or government. Corporations are beyond regulation or control. Politicians are too anemic, or more often too corrupt, to stand in the way of the accelerating corporate destruction. This makes our struggle different from revolutionary struggles in industrial societies in the past. Our revolt will look more like what erupted in the less industrialized Slavic republics, Russia, Spain and China and uprisings led by a disenfranchised rural and urban working class and peasantry in the liberation movements that swept through Africa and Latin America. The dispossessed working poor, along with unemployed college graduates and students, unemployed journalists, artists, lawyers and teachers, will form our movement. This is why the fight for a higher minimum wage is crucial to uniting service workers with the alienated college-educated sons and daughters of the old middle class. Bakunin, unlike Marx, considered déclassé intellectuals essential for successful revolt.

''The most important dilemma facing us is not ideological. It is logistical. The security and surveillance state has made its highest priority the breaking of any infrastructure that might spark widespread revolt. The state knows the tinder is there. It knows that the continued unraveling of the economy and the effects of climate change make popular unrest inevitable. It knows that as underemployment and unemployment doom at least a quarter of the U.S. population, perhaps more, to perpetual poverty, and as unemployment benefits are scaled back, as schools close, as the middle class withers away, as pension funds are looted by hedge fund thieves, and as the government continues to let the fossil fuel industry ravage the planet, the future will increasingly be one of open conflict. This battle against the corporate state, right now, is primarily about infrastructure. We need an infrastructure to build revolt. The corporate state is determined to deny us one.''

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

This thing is going to blow up "major-ly" whether we are well prepared or not.I really don't favor the prepper mentality-but I am planning on spending the winter hooking up with people who are interested in trying to figure out just how much food we can produce on our own.I already have chickens-they are easy to deal with,but require a lot of food.The garden I planted which was destroyed by weeks of heavy rain consisted mostly of 100 sunflowers-food for them.It takes trial and error in any given location to even know what will come along well.In any case,100 sunflower would not really make a dent in the food requirements of 30 large chickens.It was an experiment,based on a good result 2 years ago.I would certainly prefer to grow as much of their food as possible because I don't have any idea what practices Dave Ankin,local farmer follows-if the corn is GM,or what kinds of chemicals are involved...I hate to say it but I don't really trust Dave.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

You probably need to liaise a li'l with forum-poster and 'bonzer aussie bloke' - 'Builder', on these matters on the forum or by personal message but meal worms for chickens come to mind as does a wormery & maybe you could sow on land not doing anything whether it belongs to u or not ;-) Thus fyi, please see :

I don't trust 'Dave' either ! Dave Ca-Moron !! UK PM & A Bankster Poodle Scumbag, Extraordinaire !!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 5 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Yes-Builder is an Australian Brick House.Not for nothing-the dude who first devised Permacultures was from Oz.As for Dave,he's not a bad guy-it's just that my past experience with farmers-they do Terrible Things.That's just the way most of them are.We do have some land-but I'd like to see what we can do here in Town.We really need to build raised beds and we really need to use materials that are at hand,rather than spending money.That,I believe,is key.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If you've got some land to run the chickens on, they mostly eat grass, ants, and any bug that comes along. It's my experience that running chickens, while trying to grow produce, can be difficult. There's plenty of ideas for rotating areas for both crops and chooks, but they require quite extensive fencing, and the regular clipping of wings to prevent flying over said fences.

A sack of wheat is sufficient to supplement the chicken's diet, and it's cheap enough. Probably still some risk of GM, because despite what the biotech's claimed, there's been GM contamination of many wheat crops in the US.

An old crop that's been found to highly resist glyphosate (roundup) is Aramanth, and it's hardy, and gives many small seeds, which are quite simple to harvest and store. Likewise with Chia seeds.

Chickens will eat most kitchen scraps, but not citrus, and as for worms, composting worms sold for worm farms can multiply quite quickly, but you'd need to construct a larger farm than most commercially available.

Good luck with your plans. I don't trust most farmers, but recent changes in the requirements for Free-range certification have revealed some very dodgy practices by farmers. The more serious have gone to the trouble of installing web cams, so you can view how the chickens are living, before buying their eggs.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

We have 30 chickens right now who are free rangers,and who seem to do well foraging and consuming about 45-50 lbs per month of cracked corn.Around here,corn costs about 16usd per hundredweight.We bred and raised these birds,and they are much larger and heavier than those one usually sees.We don't kill them.We do have periodic Rooster Problems,which we solve by shipping extra roos out to the Amish and hoping for their survival.One thing I really wish I could try is growing shittake mushrooms,because most of the land in question is wooded in,and the co-owner of the land would never agree to clearing any significant part of it.The notion for growing vegetables is to construct raised beds which would be fenced in.There are a number of problems,needless to say.I am thinking of trying to contact somebody who is already growing shittakes to see if they might want to set up some stacks with us,as they already presumably have invested in processing facilities which we absolutely can't afford to do at all.Supposedly they are getting 16usd per pound on the shittakes.

[-] 4 points by IrishRevolt (5) 1 year ago

Make sure its not Monsanto corn.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Hmmm, sounds like a good plan. There's a strong likelihood that the corn is GMO, as over 85% of US maize and corn is.

Not knowing the kind of ground you are working with there, all I can do is make suggestions. Chickens can do a lot of scratching around and sustain themselves for days without supplemental feeding where I am, which is tropical temperate, with some frosts in Winter. They will tire of eating the same thing, like snails, and thrive on a variety.

Sounds like you'd have a pretty regular supply of good eggs.

[-] 5 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Oh-yes,they are first rate and so many we often end up having to smash some.I am pretty happy that we won't have to be doing that anymore because a soup kitchen is opening in our town,and they say they will take as many as we've got.Around here,there are certain areas where certain plants won't grow.After 3 years of experiments,I finally found a tomato variety that will grow in that location.This has to do with mosaic virus which is in the area like a patchwork.One thing I'm looking forward to is growing asparagus,which produces mad bumpers in that spot,as does watermelon,pumpkin and honeydew.I am hoping to grow proso for the chicks,and get away from the local corn as much as possible.

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Buckwheat is another hardy variety. Not related to wheat at all.

My tomatoes just finished, as the Spring was shorter than last years. Our citrus and some other fruit trees are flowering twice lately.

Climate change is quite obvious to those who live out in the environment.

Oh, and on the excess eggs, why do you smash them? Are you not allowed to sell them at the farm gate? The old way of storing eggs, before refrigeration, was to bake them into a fruit cake. Keeps them for ages that way. And good to eat as well, with a hot cuppa.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

We do use alot of the eggs up in baked goods.As for selling them,there really are no customers.There are people interested in them,but they expect to be given them for nothing,because that's how the majority of Americans are.They are absolutely the worst customers on Earth.There simply is hardly anyone who honestly can't afford to pay 5 cents per egg,yet they will not pay even that below-cost price.I used to pack the excess up and take it to the Northcountry,where truly destitute people were being given them for free-but the woman who was distributing them passed away at the age of 46 due to poverty,and I don't know the other poor women she was sharing them with.No worry-I have found a job at a soup kitchen where they will be used.A dozen and a half a day-they pile up quick.Fortunately eveyone around here is mad for pumpkin pie.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Good for you. Australians love free-range eggs, and will drive out of their way to get some. We also have weekend grower's markets all over the place, and a dozen eggs fetches five dollars wherever you go.

[-] 2 points by OccupyMindz (5) 1 year ago

That wide variety of people uniting against corruption is the reason the establishment shut it down.

The reason governors across the country were communicating.

The reason they passed NDAA.

They know their time is coming. And they know if nation of 300million people there is nothing they can do about it.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

LOL-They want to steal that Social Security money so bad! And The Crunch will surely come before they can manage to do it...LOL!

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4849) 1 year ago

Good Comment

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4849) 1 year ago

OK!

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

I can't tell if you are for or against the idea that the financial sector needs to be cut down to size and as many criminals as possible be prosecuted,or if your comment reflects sarcasm.I do not consider prosecution and punishment of 13 people ,plus traitor extraordinaire Lloyd Blankfein,at least,to be beyond what #OWS can do-in the short term.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4849) 1 year ago

"Put Them In Jail"-----Agree

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

The Evil Wealthy White Guys better pray that of all their sworn enemies,they don't end up at the mercy of either The Evil Wealthy Chinese Guys-or the Formerly Middle Class American White Guys.The Evil Wealthy Chinese Guys are mean,but not really angry,so they would probably just throw them in a pit and starve them to death.Around here,the White American Guys hate the Wealthy Wasters so much,they are likely to insist on something way worse than prison.I believe they should reap what they have sown...this was once a beautiful country-I remember how it was...

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4849) 1 year ago

You made some good points. All this oppression by TPTB-----it did not have to be this way. There will be a backlash.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I like the pit idea, and the starving to death bit.

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4849) 1 year ago

As long as TPTB maintain the oppression, the closer we get to conflict. Anyone with the trappings of wealth, would be a target.

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I wonder what happened to all those trillions "discovered" in offshore accounts.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

The Groundlings are getting very,very irritable...myself not the least.Predicting events is so way different from living through them.My whole garden was completely wiped out by torrential rains about a month after putting it in the ground.At this point all I lost was the money time and effort-but the chilling thought could not be pushed away-what if that garden was most of my food for months?I think I got a couple quarts of strawberries and 2 tomatoes.God help us.What a gigantic CF we are in for...

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[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Yo-them are my "peeps"-raggedy,rowdy poverty stricken jacks-and janes of all trades.POOR-People's Organization of Occupiers and Resisters-HEY!Wait a minute-I do believe I saw you there,rapping out Ribald Rhymes and eyeing the multitude of Winsome Wenches...

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[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Ragged,perhaps,but well endowed with a certain rascally charm and a noble bearing in all circumstances! I never did agree that clothes make anybody-rather Sartor Resartus, by sheer force of personality...

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[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Tiny,stubby pencils?Stacks of inkless ballpoint pens(black)?James Dean was a rather accomplished amateur cartoonist,whose drawings were made on paper napkins,sprinkled with poesy...

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[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Vaguely,yet exactly correct.Well done!Sir-I salute you!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

All We Are Saying - is - Put Them In Jail

Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance

(C'mon) Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout Minister, Sinister, Banisters and Canisters, Bishops, Fishops, Rabbis, and Pop Eyes, Bye bye, Bye byes All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance

(Let me tell you now) Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation, Integrations, mediations, United Nations, congratulations All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance

Ev'rybody's talkin' 'bout John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary, Tommy Smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper, Derek Taylor, Norman Mailer, Alan Ginsberg, Hare Krishna Hare Hare Krishna All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Where there is no justice,there can be no peace.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''No justice ; no peace''?! Hmmmmm !! In any and all things, true !!! Also 'tharry' re your forum-post, see :

''Western governments and international policy bodies serve the interests of this financial core of the Transnational Corporate Class. Wars are initiated to protect their interests. International treaties, and policy agreements are arranged to promote their success. Power elites serve to promote the free flow of global capital for investment anywhere that returns are possible.

''Identifying the people with such power and influence is an important part of democratic movements seeking to protect our commons so that all humans might share and prosper.''

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Read it-but TY for thinking of me-"Trashy"

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''American Workers : Hanging on by the Skin of Their Teeth'', by Mike Whitney :

''After five years of Obama’s economic recovery, the American people are as gloomy as ever. According to a Bloomberg National Poll that was released this week, fewer people “are optimistic about the job market” or “the housing market” or “anticipate improvement in the economy’s strength over the next year.” Also, only 38 percent think that President Obama is doing enough “to make people feel more economically secure.” Worst of all, Bloomberg pollsters found that 68 percent of interviewees thought the country was “headed in the wrong direction”.

Sorry dude, can't call you ''Trashy'' for obvious reasons but solidarity @ u, 'tharry''.

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

O-I fergot about that nasty ol' Thrasymank-Tharry or Trash is ok...

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Culture, real culture, is radical and transformative. It is capable of expressing what lies deep within us. It gives words to our reality. It makes us feel as well as see. It allows us to empathize with those who are different or oppressed. It reveals what is happening around us. It honors mystery. “The role of the artist, then, precisely, is to illuminate that darkness, blaze roads through the vast forest,” James Baldwin wrote, “so that we will not, in all our doing, lose sight of its purpose, which is, after all, to make the world a more human dwelling place.” Excerpted again Tharry, from :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Excellent.I must admit I am put off by Hedges because of some of his negative remarks about The BB-however,he definately is a very eloquent voice who I think has entirely captured the essence of "the Occupy Flavor."I also credit Naomi Klein with doing the same.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

a) "Why Occupy Wall Street ? 4 Reasons." [Short Video] :

b) "Why Socialism ?" by Albert Einstein :

c) "Why I Am a Socialist", by Chris Hedges :

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Gratzi!

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

There've been 18 USG 'shut downs' since 1976 apparently but ... ''Certain influential Republicans in the House and Senate, along with the outside groups that sustain them, figured out that slapping - "Repeal Obamacare!" into a direct-mail fundraising message was better than winning the lottery, so they kept at it, and kept at it, and kept at it, and Oh my Lord, how the money rolled in ... until the monster that they created stomped out of the laboratory and began tearing up the joint. And so here we are, smack dab in the middle of the most irrational, damaging, stupid, reckless, feckless fundraising drive in the history of currency.'' from :

And why all this B-S ?! 'Cause the Corporate ConTrolled Pols don't give two shits about The US 99% !! Koch-Sucking, Bat-Shit-Loony, Head-Fukt, Shit-Talking, Tea-baggers especially !!! Prego amico e ciao.

Also consider :

e tenebris lux ...

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3151) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Again,I thank you for these relevant and timely references.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

For a hard look behind the curtain, stopping the corporatocracy, the present political reality and its history in The U$A - please further consider :

multum in parvo ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Ommm aaand Breeeeeeeath ~*~ ! & Caaaaallllmmm !! Consider also that playing into Dem Party's hands and helping to shut the forum by leaving, is very counter-productive and anti-99% but sadly maybe the desired result - ergo, persevere for and coalesce around - The 99% !!! Glib but true.

Please also further consider :

''As wages stagnate and costs rise, US workers recognise the guiding ideal of this nation for the delusional myth it is'' Gary Younge btw, is also just another Brit looking in scratching his head ;-)

ad iudicium ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Stop playing whack-a-mole and stop being the mole !!! Consider being the mallet but covered in velvet !! Re. your final question : 'Extreme censure and censor' is my guess in answer ! Less heat, could mean more light - so let love, light and logic for The 99% be your only animus & sorry for any condescension.

et fiat lux ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

No & I'm happy to be TD's friend as I could be fine being considered your's too despite our differences, because I'm naive and insanely optimistic enough to think that most of us here are actually pro-99% .. however all the banning and removing shit is getting more than a bit out of hand, I think you'll agree :-(

ad iudicium ...

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[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Where are we 'disagreeing' again ? Genuine question btw ! I'll reply to any reply tomorrow ;-)

vale ...

[-] 1 points by Catelonia (51) 1 year ago

Sorry I edited that comment.

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Would a cuddle help ?! I'm a good cuddler but may delegate the task to your girl friend, if that's ok ?!!

Energy = +ve &/or -ve ; heat or light - 'nrg' evolves & it's all about choices & it's way past my bed time !!!

pax ...

[-] 1 points by Catelonia (51) 1 year ago

Yes a "cuddle" would be helpful to me if you were the NZ shadz.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Six Things OWS Made Possible (That You Probably Already Take for Granted)'', by James Trimarco :

1) You can refer to the "1%" and have everybody know what you are talking about.

2) You can fight back in court if you are stopped and frisked in New York City.

3) You can share things online without being immediately sued.

4) Various new media projects.

5) Senator Elizabeth Warren.

6) A more deeply networked activist world.

~

I'm not a hairdresser from NZ so unlucky there sailor ! However, persevere for The 99% !! Viva OWS !!!

consilio et animis ...

[-] 1 points by Catelonia (51) 1 year ago

I agree Occupy has made many advances that are now taken for granted. "6. A more deeply networked activist world." That's my favorite. As people begin to realize that almost all of our plights are tied to a neoliberal agenda, they are supporting each other in a plethora of ways. It's only by forming these alliances that we will have the numbers we need to make a difference. That is also the reason that Occupy's agenda should not become a singular one..

Some of the best people that I have ever known in my life are Occupiers. How could they not be, considering how so many of them sacrifice so much with no enumeration to make this a Better World?

It is rare that I come home from an OWS event without receiving a few hugs. One time after having gotten a couple of those hugs, I teased a couple of friends, and said, OK I'm outta here...I got what I came for. We all laughed.

You sure you're not looking out at the warm blue waters of the South Pacific as opposed to the dark cold waters of the North Atlanic?

Viva OWS!!....~Odin~

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Solidarity and respect for your perseverance both on the ground and on this forum. Ditto @ ''Occupy's agenda should not become a singular one'' in so far as joining the dots between Neoliberalism and The 99% plight is paramount. From a certain perspective & playing on words, OWS is of course a ''singular'' endeavour too and steady on there sailor, I'm 'mos def' a bloke in the North Atlantic, lol. Also fyi :

Appended here to be in keeping with trashyharry's forum-post as ''all we are saying, is put them in jail'' !!

per aspera ad astra ...

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