Forum Post: After the rich are gone and you have destroyed the corporations,
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 19, 2011, 11:06 a.m. EST by DunkiDonut2
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
After the rich are gone,,, and you have destroyed the corporations, who will you blame next for the problems and after that?
When and where in all of world history can you describe a Utopia? If nothing is perfect, "people",(you) will need to find something else to complain about. What will you complain about then? It would be nice to know up front. You will need to complain about something,,, it is in your nature to do that. You will only be able to turn on your friends.
silly comment, this is not a group of CHRONIC complainers.... this is people who've been pushed too far and are FINALLY doing something about it.
mr ineptcongress, didn't i hear you in the 60's say the same thing?
well, i wasn't alive, but ok.
mr ineptcongress, must have been your dad.
If not whine at then who will you blame?
there's plenty of blame to pass around... let's start with government that has passed many bad laws that harm the country because their vote has been bought by special interest money.
Yes that is wrong. Why don't we talk about that?
You,,, YOU,,, were pushed too far? Who looked you in the eye and pushed you too far?
the government and the oligarchs who control it. i am discontent with them... not some malcontent who always needs to complain, which is true of most of OWS.
Corporatists. Not "corporations". They don't have to be destroyed. They can come to the table and play fair. The rich can stay or go. They don't create jobs. They can leave at any time.
Who creates jobs then? Is it the poor? The middle class? Maybe it's the govt. Wait, the overwhelming majority doesn't work for the Govt. So that can't be it. Who then?
Maybe if we got the Govt to take over all industry. Govt issued haircuts and clothing. Govt cars and restaurants. We all have a number patch that is stitched to our sleeve.
I answered that in my reply to Woohoo.
Consumers create jobs!!!! We consumers create the demand that corporations manipulate to their own benifit. We have allowed uncontroled mergers. We have allowed complacent politicians to remain in power. We have stood by and watched powerful people work together to grasp controle of politics, corporations, banks and courts. If you do not belive me look at any large bank's list of top Stock Holders and then do the same with another bank. Same names? Hummmmm. I wonder, If the same people sit on each other's Board of Directors, how can they NOT be working together to manipulate politicians and laws in their favor. Still not convinced? Look at the Bord of Directors of any large corporation. Why are all of these boards filled with people who represent "competing" businesses? Consumers create the jobs! I say WE create the NEW Corporations.
We create jobs by our demands, and we can uncreate corporations by our vote, vote from our wallets. We should targeting these corporate paracites and withdrawing our financial support, redirecting our financial expenditures to those with a social conscience, starving the rest.
Exactly. But I belive with the computer, the oppertunity for a leader to come to power with no need for corporate contributions is close at hand.
There cannot be a consumer if there isn't a product. So who creates the product?
Demand. We chose who or what, (corporations are NOT people) we get our needs fulfilled by. If we need water, we get it from a public water suply, rain fall, or a bottle sold by Coke or Pepsi. The product is produced because we demand it. Well demand that it is made local. I would pay $100 for an American made belt that would last longer than a year. Who will make me one? Black, 50 inch and strong enough to last. Must be made in America.
Yes but who creates the product? Who starts the companies who employs the people to produce the product? Coke and Pepsi do not grow on trees?
Any corporation can produce any product they choose to make. The public has the choice to purchase whatever they wish to purchase. Actually, Coke and Pepsi do grow on trees. You can purchase all the ingredients you need to make your own sodas. We can chose to buy from local farmers. Why do we sit back and let these people walk all over us? Corporations are losing their customers at an alarming rate in the US, this is why they are expanding in foreign markets. The only true way out of this economic recession is to grow a moral small business structure in the US that is not relient upon large corporations to distribute its products to the customers. Large conglomerates are a dieing breed because they destroy their customer base as they cut jobs and reduce their operating expiences in order to be more profitable. Any small business owner will tell you that the secret to profitability is increased sales, NOT reduced expiences. Eventually these large corporations will need to close their doors because that will be the only way to further reduce their cost of sales. Most of the box stores will be gone, malls will close, offices will be boarded up. Why? Because it will become more profitable to fire those employees and eleminate the building costs. Unfortunately this will also kill the customer base.
It's a matter of creating a demand (real or imagined) and then supplying goods or services to satisfy that demend.
I didn't know we needed iphones until one was brought into the communications market.
I didn't know I had restless leg syndrome until I saw an ad on The NBC Nightly News.
I didn't know I needed a war with Iraq until all that "evidence" was show to the UN
I didn't know I needed KBR-Halliburton as a prime defense contractor until the Iraq War.
I didn't know I needed to be conned into an outrageous mortgage by Country Wide Financial Services until...oh, I think you catch my drift here.
I can't imagine why everyone's so upset!
After they are gone we will start reconstruction of Democracy, bring work back to our countries and organize healthy living conditions for the growing population. Commerce will be regulated to make sure all of the people can profit from it. After rebuilding the country for for the people, the revolution will be spread outside the USA and spill into other countries for the betterment of all the world's people. (you say we complain but no we do no such thing. We criticize what needs to be criticized, it needs to improve and be better. Even after the revolution passes we will criticize and suggest and vote and listen and take action. Freedom of speech is not only for the media, it is for all of the people to enjoy. The people can do anything when they are united, they do not need one rich man or woman for help, they can gather together and do it. In this world and society everything depends on people. This movement is the people.
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@Dunkitroll....After the poor are gone (due to famine, disease, and environmental destruction) and you have completely destroyed the middle class, who will YOU blame for your problems?
If there are no poor, and no middle class, wouldn't that mean that everyone would be in the 1%? :P
we could end poverty today by redistributing the wealth and making everyone middle class. Which would create untold job growth.
If you redistribute the wealth, why would anyone get up and go to work?
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Was I talking to you?
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If you redistribute the wealth, making everyone middle class-how on earth would that create "untold job growth"?
demand creates employment. When all the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the 1% who already have everything, demand plummets, and employment along with it. When the wealth is spread evenly, demand rises across all sectors, and employment rises with it.
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So you're saying that 99% of the people in this country don't "demand" anything...food, water, electricity, manufactured goods, clothing, services, etc. The 99% demands WAYYYYYYYY more than 1% ever COULD.
no I am saying that real demand = need + buying power. With buying power heavily concentrated in just a few hands (400 families own more wealth that than bottom 160 million Americans combined) and those people having NO needs (they have more money than they could feasibly ever spend) the economy stagnates b/c there is no real demand.
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On what fucking planet is a manned mission to the moon even possible? What fucking supernatural force do you expect the USA to call on to effect a manned trip to the moon? How the holy hell in the name of all things logical could such an unprecedented event ever fucking happen in this universe?
HOW?
Lots of things seem impossible before they happen.
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Ask buphiloman. It was HIS statement, not mine.
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or as in Finland, where everyone is middle class
Not so much-
"Income disparities growing faster in Finland than in any other OECD country"
"According to a recent survey conducted by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), the gap between rich and poor has widened more in Finland than in any other wealthy industrialized country over the past decade. The survey indicates that he income disparities grew in Finland particularly fast in the period from 1995 to 2005."
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Income+disparities+growing+faster+in+Finland+than+in+any+other+OECD+country/1135241060829
Nice factual post. thanks. "...income divergence is growing there too now. In spite of the rapid growth rate, Finland is still a country with low inequality of incomes, clearly below the average. Among 30 OECD countries Finland is seventh, while Denmark and Sweden are in a class of their own with the lowest income disparity of all.
Finland has rapidly moved from a traditional Nordic country with equal income, progeressive taxation, and income transfers towards Anglo-Saxon countries having a more pronounced inequality of earnings. According to the survey, Finland is also one of the few countries where inequality of incomes has grown between the rich and the middle-class, and not only between rich and poor. ...
”The change is a consequence of the tax reform in 1993”, Suoniemi reports. In this post-recession reform the difference between the tax rates on earned income and capital income was made notably wide when compared with other OECD countries. As a consequence, the differences between assessed incomes have been growing in Finland rapidly, while the disparities between gross earnings remain clearly smaller, Suoniemi notes. In terms of net income, the earnings of the richest 1% of people have doubled in Finland over ten years, having grown from 3.5 % to 7 %. More than half of the earnings of this small group were in the form of capital income, of which the growth in dividend revenues was particularly high.
Like the universe,...capitalism expands infinitely
History is written by those with the backbone to stand for something other than 'the way things have always been done'. Rosa Parks was one of these individuals, so was Henry Ford, and so was Julius Caesar, Thomas Crapper, Charlemagne, Thomas Edison, George Washington, Marie Curie, Albert Einstein and many more than I can list. Those people named and unnamed were unwilling to keep living 'the way it was always done' and sought to make things better. Whether they did it for themselves or the rest of society, they affected real progress and change for the human race as a whole. For you to sit there in your lazy boy recliner, drinking your beer and erroneously declare that OWS doesn't care about the important stuff and is just here to spread anarchy; you sound like a fool. You' re the guy that would rather teach children that it is wrong to question and perfectly correct to accept everything that is told to you. Heck! You'd probably still be teaching them to this day that the world IS flat, that the night sky is a scrap of parchment stretched across the sky by the gods and the light of the night stars is their glory shining from the other side...
All of those you mention, all but one, CREATED something. They were innovative. They didnt whine or cry foul. They saw something bad and worked to make it better. True, they were unwilling to live the way it was always done and DID SOMETHING. OWS is just the opposite. It is made of whiners, complainers, protesters that chant anti-"fill in the blank" crap all day long. This site is full of it. Yet you listed people that were examples of just the opposite of you. I love the spirit of CHANGE brought about by those innovative people. You sir, are no innovative person. OWS is lazy and simply wants taxes to go up so they can take from the gutters. You are miserable and you demand that everyone is miserable with you. The thousands of trolls on this site dont agree with your lazy whining direction for this country.
All change starts small. Show me any insurrectionist movement that started with wanton violence and did anything that amounted to anything. Any movement starts with a small gesture - refusing to leave your seat on a bus - that snowballs in time. If the movement is just, it organizes and grows. This movement started with a bunch of what I once saw as 'squatters' in a city park. As I have come to change my views and join the movement, it has also grown from the hundreds of thousands of people, from all walks of life around the planet... and it continues to grab more. Politicians are even beginning to see our side of the argument. In time, the movement may well be indistinguishable from the first marchers, but it IS growing. It IS a movement of Civic Duty. Freedom is not free and leaving the helm of the ship we call Democracy at the beck and call of the rats and vermin will sink us ALL. Most of these so-called whiners you see are quite well educated, sophisticated and informed citizens.
Maybe I miss read your recent post. I could have swore you used names like, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Maire Curie. I didnt know they were involved in,, how did you put it?,,,, insurrectionist movement. Please explain how those people were related to squatters?????
It's a process, at it's best and most optimistic, alternative modes of governance and for the control of corporate wealth will arise at the same time that the institutional corporate forms are transcended and the super rich are expropriated,
thats not a very intelligent comment because otherwise no one would ever try and change anything or make any thing better.
Re-man the factories and make better stuff than was made before.
I hope they all starve, in Galts Gulch.
Who is going to buy all the materials it takes to "make better stuff"? (Can't invest in inventory without a whole lotta $$$)
Who is going to teach you how run the factories? (People whose lives have been ruined by OWS probably won't be very willing to show you how to take over their jobs)
Who gets to decide who does what in the factories? (Better start the GA's now...)
Who gets to decide how much the factory workers get paid? Are you going to pay them all equally? How are you going to insure that their jobs are equally hard/demanding/important in order to pay them all fairly?
Who is going to buy all the stuff you make? (Since you're teaching people to boycott companies who do stupid, selfish, controlling things...no one will be left to purchase the stuff you make because they'll view the collapse of the economy as a hostile, stupid thing. Oh...and they won't have any money to buy your crap because you took down the stock market and banks where they had invested all their money...)
If there are one million OWS people and everyone chipped in $1 you could buy your first factory. Report back.
Run off to Galts Gulch now and we'll see what happens.
Don't bother reporting back. You'll be starving.
Oh please, where do people get this stuff? This is where the money is. The rich aren't going anywhere.
it feels like the beginning of the french revolution... and those rich elite that didn't get out quickly enough were swiftly put 6 feet underground, all their belongings were plundered, and guess what? the world kept turning.
The situation is similar, yes. And like the wealthy elite of that time, many of the 1% have lost touch with the rest of humanity. Their lives are dominated by different priorities and they have no idea of what it is like to actually need to work to survive.
Odd as it may seem, the 1% are the people that need OWS the most. They need to be reminded that the needs of the 99% are important before they commit suicide by angry mob.
This is not a justification for the possibility of violent action on the part of the 99%. It is a warning that if things are not corrected, violence is inevitable. The OWS movement, in expressing the discontent of the 99% act as a release valve for the building pressure and also as a warning of what will happen if things don't change.
So....you're all for killing people and taking their stuff because the world will just keep on turning. Nice.
please, don't put words in my mouth--just saying' it happened before... in a similar way... people can only be abused and held down for so long, then they do something rash.
So does that make OWS the Committee of Public Safety that initiates the Reign of Terror?
not sure i'd even call it that... i'd probably call it a "just dessert"... but there are subtle reigns of terror: they're called politicians who suffocate the federal government by over-promising benefits and tax reductions to buy votes, then mortgage the nation's future thereby committing terror on the younger generation for the shithole they have to deal with.
After the rich are gone- we all live happily ever after- Thank you JESUS and ALLA be praised
Who said anything about getting rid of the rich and destroying corporations? You either dont know what your talking or trolling. Educate yourself, being republican and stupid is no way to go thru life son.
You must be reading your own posts. The site if full of anti-rich and anti-corporations. Maybe you had not heard that protesters tried to close down several ports to stop commerce (corporations). You should read the posts and watch the news.
As i supported this movement i took my time to find out really what this movement is all about. It's not hard to do unless someone wants to believe the smear.
When are they leaving?
It would be nice to have a time line.
We do need the rich and the Banks and the Corporations. The problem is not with them, it's with the U.S. Congress which regulates commerce and almost everything else. Those people in Congress are the cause of all of our problems. We need to kick them out.
hey DunkiDonut2, this really is a silly little comment. thanks for the laugh!
The grand monopolies must be broken down. The whole thing is a ponzi scheme/monopoly, that was constructed with lawyers/lobbyists who exploit the legal loopholes. The agenda has always been the same, top-down economics. Control. Most people have already turned on each other, everyone has biased differences. This is the goal, and united we stand - divided we fall. We the people will fall and destroy each other. It was a setup from the go. We are in uncharted territory. They already indirectly have divided us from the top, down through the media and pop culture. You see it all the time, turn on the TV, talk to someone. Most people are always afraid and expect the government to do something. Thank you for surrendering you freedom. Nobody trusts anybody anymore, and all live in fear. Now they will gain more control.
I wasnt on here for 8 days. I came back and the same bull. Almost forgot there was an OWS. Never saw anything about it on the news.
We can always blame life itself.
Arrests . . . see how you are succeeding in wasting everybody's time . . . http://occupyarrests.moonfruit.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
The question still stands,,,,, the rich and corporations are gone,,, who are you going to blame next? You know YOU wont be happy to just stop,,,, once you tasted the blood.Let us know now.
@Dunkin--I hope the rich don't run away, or vanish. They just should get to contribute more, through paying their share of taxes, and not hoard it all in off-shore bank accounts. Such as when Eisenhower was pres. tax them at 90 percent, so we can have some money flowing around, and all kinds of jobs will get created.
Then they will call their bowel movement Occupy Dirt....... Because they didn't get off their lazy asses, they will always complain about something!
so true. it's like animal rights extremists. what happens when they get all the humans to stop eating meat? do they head to the jungle and ask Mr Lion to not eat Mr Zebra? kind of jump right in the middle of that fight and hope that reason and compassion will prevail?
a certain percentage of people love--need--to complain. leftists, especially. the progressive movement cannot accept its successes and must continue the govt money racket by acting as if this is STILL 1959 Jim Crow, women CAN'T do whatever they want, and we are thisclose to having 7 day work weeks and child labor again.
the only way to maintain their relevance is to pretend they've failed at everything but more tax money is needed to correct these "problems."
progressives are full of shit.
I don't think animal rights activists are so concerned about the eating of animals as they are about the fraud, waste, and abuse that occurs in such facilities where your food is produced. Maybe if you got your information from sources other than the mainstream media, you might be in a position to know what you are talking about. And yes, I do eat meat...it is delicious. But at least I know where mine comes from, and it's usually not from inside of some machine.
Why do you think humans are just animals? We have the power to be vegetarian. Women can't do whatever they want? Neither can men. You need to thank women of history for not making men manual labor slaves, while we remain the thinkers. Gorillas are mostly vegetarian, did you know? Humans can supplement their diet IF needed with vitamins. Seriously, what is the magical ingredient in meat that cannot be obtained with food or supplement? Think for yourself, don't just spout what you are told.
"Turning grain into flesh is extremely wasteful. Twenty vegetarians can be fed on the amount of land needed to feed one person on a meat-based diet.
More than one-third of all the raw materials and fossil fuels used in our country go to raise animals for food.
We have permanently lost 3/4 of U.S. topsoil; 85 percent of this loss is directly due to the raising of animals for food.
The price of meat would double or triple if the full ecological costs - including fossil fuel use, groundwater depletion and agriculture-chemical pollution - were included in the pricetag.
A typical hog factory farm generates raw waste equivalent to that of a city of 12,000 people. The waste from U.S. factory farms in a single year would fill 6.7 million train boxcars - enough to circle the Earth 12 and a half times.
Malnutrition and starvation will kill approximately 14 million people this year. If Americans reduced their intake of meat by just 10 percent, the land, water and energy freed up from growing livestock feed would feed 100 million people"
"Rainforests, vital to earth's oxygen supply, are being destroyed at an alarming rate - the top cause is the raising of animals for food.
Forty-five percent of the total land in this country is used to raise animals for food or crops to feed these animals.
A carnivorous diet requires 4200 gallons of water per day; a vegetarian one, 300 gallons per day. "
http://www.animalconnectiontx.org/food/vegfacts.htm