Forum Post: About that massacre in Afghanistan and the evolving cover story
Posted 12 years ago on March 13, 2012, 2:39 p.m. EST by fiftyfourforty
(1077)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Did he have a brain injury?
Did Brain Injury Play a Role in Afghan Massacre?
Discovery News - 27 minutes ago Mild traumatic brain injuries and PTSD share symptoms. ... Medical details about a staff sergeant, who is in custody for killing 16 Afghan civilians in a ... Trained sniper reportedly suffered brain injury in Iraq in 2010
New York Daily News - 15 hours ago
Was it a mental breakdown?
US soldier kills 16 Afghan civilians in deadly shooting rampage ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../US-soldier-kills-16-Afghan-civilians-deadly-...2 hours ago – ... suffering a 'mental breakdown' early Sunday morning. Witnesses say it was more than one soldier
US Soldiers Massacre 16 Afghan Civilians in Killing Spree -- News ...
Witnesses say they were drunk and laughing
PKKH - 4 hours ago Photo Reuters Gruesome new details are surfacing after 16 Afghan villagers ... “They were all drunk and shooting all over the place,” Reuters cites Agha ... Sixteen Afghan civilians killed in rogue U.S. attack | Reuters
in.reuters.com/.../afghanistan-civilians-idINDEE82A02J201203... - India2 days ago – KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Western forces shot dead 16 ... carried out by American soldiers who were laughing and appeared drunk.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/11/us-afghanistan-civilians-idUSBRE82A02V20120311
There were conflicting reports of how many shooters were involved, with U.S. officials asserting that a lone soldier was responsible, in contrast to witnesses' accounts that several U.S. soldiers were present.
Neighbors and relatives of the dead said they had seen a group of U.S. soldiers arrive at their village in Kandahar's Panjwayi district at about 2 a.m., enter homes and open fire.
An Afghan man who said his children were killed in the shooting spree accused soldiers of later burning the bodies.
Obama said he was deeply saddened. "This incident is tragic and shocking and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan," Obama said in a statement.
"INTENTIONAL MURDERS"
Afghan President Karzai condemned the rampage as "intentional murders" and demanded an explanation from the United States. His office said the dead included nine children and three women.
Afghan officials also gave varying accounts of the number of shooters involved. Karzai's office released a statement quoting a villager as saying "American soldiers woke my family up and shot them in the face."
Minister of Border and Tribal Affairs Asadullah Khalid said a U.S. soldier had burst into three homes near his base in the middle of the night, killing a total of 16 people including 11 people in the first house.
The ISAF spokesman said the U.S. soldier "walked back to the base and turned himself into U.S. forces this morning," adding there had been no military operations taking place in the area when the incident occurred.
Panjwayi district is about 35 km (22 miles) west of the provincial capital Kandahar city. The district is considered the spiritual home of the Taliban and has been a hive of insurgent activity in recent years.
"I saw that all 11 of my relatives were killed, including my children and grandchildren," said a weeping Haji Samad, who said he had left his home a day earlier.
BLOOD-SPATTERED WALLS
The walls of the house were blood-splattered.
"They (Americans) poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned them," Samad told Reuters at the scene.
Neighbors said they had awoken to crackling gunfire from American soldiers, who they described as laughing and drunk.
"They were all drunk and shooting all over the place," said neighbor Agha Lala, who visited one of the homes where killings took place.
"Their (the victims') bodies were riddled with bullets."
A senior U.S. defense official in Washington rejected witness accounts that several apparently drunk soldiers were involved. "Based on the preliminary information we have this account is flatly wrong," the official said. "We believe one U.S. service member acted alone, not a group of U.S. soldiers."
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called Karzai to offer his condolences. "I condemn such violence and am shocked and saddened that a U.S. service member is alleged to be involved, clearly acting outside his chain of command," Panetta said in a statement. "A full investigation is already under way. A suspect is in custody and I gave President Karzai my assurances that we will bring those responsible to justice."
The Afghan Taliban said it would take revenge for the deaths, in an emailed statement to media.
The U.S. Embassy in Kabul said an investigation was under way and that "the individual or individuals responsible for this act will be identified and brought to justice."
ISAF Commander General John Allen promised a rapid investigation.
Civilian casualties have been a major source of friction between Karzai's Western-backed government and U.S.-led NATO forces in Afghanistan. NATO is preparing to hand over all security responsibilities to Afghans and all foreign combat troops are scheduled to leave by end-2014.
NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the alliance remained firmly committed to its mission and said anyone responsible would be held accountable.
The Koran burning and the violence that followed, including a spate of deadly attacks against U.S. soldiers, underscored the challenges that the West faces as it prepares to withdraw.
Sunday's attack may harden a growing consensus in Washington that, despite a troop surge, a war bill exceeding $500 billion over 10-1/2 years and almost 2,000 U.S. lives lost, prospects are dimming for what the United States can accomplish in Afghanistan.
"These killings only serve to reinforce the mindset that the whole war is broken and that there's little we can do about it beyond trying to cut our losses and leave," said Joshua Foust, a security expert with the American Security Project.
(Reporting by Ahmad Nadem in Kandahar and Hamid Shalizi in Kabul, Additional reporting by Missy Ryan and Alister Bull in Washington; Writing by Amie Ferris-Rotman; Editing by Andrew Roche and Jackie Frank)
Ungrateful Afghans! We invade them to get Bin Ladn even though they offered to turn him over
Taliban 'offered bin Laden trial before 9/11' - Central & South Asia ...
www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/09/20119115334167663.htmlSep 11, 2011 – Former minister says group was prepared to see bin Laden put on trial prior ... interest, according to a senior aide to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar. ... They kept demanding we hand him over, but we had no relations with the
Briefing 05: The Smoking Gun www.j-n-v.org/AW_briefings/ARROW_briefing005.htmThe Taliban Agreed To Extradite Osama Bin Laden To Another Country ... head of the Jamaat Ulema-e-Islam, met Taliban supreme leader Mullah Omar. ... The court would decide whether to try him on the spot or hand him over to America.
So we invade looking for a guy they offered to turn over, we kill lots of them
Afghans Dispute NATO Casualty Figures
GroundReport - 3 hours ago “How can we believe the numbers you are presenting?” he said. “The number of civilian casualties in Afghanistan has reached its highest level yet, ...
Piss on their bodies
US troops 'urinating on dead Afghan bodies' video used as 'Taliban ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../US-troops-urinating-dead-Afghan-bodies-vi...Jan 12, 2012 – Footage showing American soldiers urinating on dead Afghan bodies has sparked outrage across the world - with Afghanistan's leaders ... US Soldiers Piss on Dead Afghan Bodies (WARNING GRAPHIC ...
www.greenewave.com/us-soldiers-piss-on-dead-afghan-bodies-warni... 1 review Jan 13, 2012 – Video shows US marines urinating on dead bodies in Afghanistan. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan (Graphic Warning ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6_dAyfS6psJan 12, 2012 – "The U.S. Marine Corps has launched an investigation into a video that purports to show American Marines urinating on the dead bodies of ...
White House apologizes for soldier burning Koran at Afghan military ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../White-House-apologizes-soldier-burning-Ko...Feb 22, 2012 – More than 2000 protesters gathered outside Bagram Air Field in Parwan province, north of Kabul, with some firing guns in the air and shouting ...
Argue that no apology should be made
And still the bastards don't like us!!!!
I believe in the My Lai Massacre only William Calley was ever convicted and hundreds of women and children were killed.
Let's hope the truth comes out in this case because it's not making a lot of sense right now.
And as though there were only this one massacre in Vietnam or Afghanistan.
True. Sadly, very true.
It's been established that this site is censored by the USA military, as anything that that shows the US military in bad light is deleted now within 5 minutes.
How would you know? You've been on this forum for 5 minutes.
Here's an article comparing MyLai and this massacre in Afghanistan:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30895.htm
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girlie, you're sick.
I love this, if your murdered by a US soldier Obama will declare you a US Citizen, ... I wonder what that means? Social Security survivor benefits? Maybe a flag? Hell maybe even a gold plated toilet in your DHS Fusion Center?
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Get fucked retard. Stop lying.
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That might possibly apply to this website, I am aware of that. Still it is a forum for debate and ideas. Any progressive movement is going to be infiltrated. The problem is to have it do what it ought to do inspite of that sad inevitable fact.
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Some of your facts are a bit off. Soros is not the richest banker. He is plenty filthy rich. Are you a bot?
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Soros is the richest investment banker in the world. Period.
Instilling fear is the goal abroad and at home, its how populations are controlled.
WRT to mai-lai then you can understand what we are doing today, ... given that it is illegal to discuss what is going on now in Afghan on OWS forum, it seems to be tolerated to discuss our illustrious past MIL operations abroad, but NOTE nothing has changed, then and now its always been about 'instilling fear' in the villagers to control them.
The women & children were not just killed, they were all sexually mutilated. The soldiers would proudly display the genitals of Vietnamese children around their neck as War Trophy's. This is why Mai-Lai caused the outrage back in the day, not simply because innocents were slaughtered, but because the corpses had been sexually mutilated.
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http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13l8u_mos-def-immortal-technique-et-emine_music
and you wonder why they want recruiters out of high schools and colleges
There is not one good thing about war.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13l8u_mos-def-immortal-technique-et-emine_music
That is quite a video. A lot of anger there. What we need to do in this country is focus on our own poor, our own problems, and stop acting as if we're superior.
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Details aside, irrespective of if one or many soldiers did it, and whether they were drunk or not, reality is these killing are yet the latest in a long series of collateral murders. If the U.S. military command chain is not somehow complicit, then at very best the military command has lost control over its troops. Either way, what modicum of trust the U.S. Armed Forces may have had with the Afghan people is certainly lost. Even here at home in the U.S.A. the trust is being lost. I once saw our young men and women in uniform as true soldiers. Now I cannot help but look at them with suspicion knowing that there are thugs amongst them. Maybe they are all thugs; I don't know for sure, but I'm surely not taking any chances with any of them. It is as if the lessons of My Lai and the fall of Vietnam were never learned. We all know something is seriously wrong.
If a military cannot control its own troops, how then are they to control a people of a foreign land? We all know they cannot. The U.S. mission in Afghanistan is effectively trashed. The only recourse for U.S. troops is to leave.
We talk about the economy and the 1%, but it is these wars in the Middle East that is tearing our country apart. How about us taking some time to focus in on stopping these sicko wars.
It looks worse and worse.
"The Afghan investigation team of legislators investigating the Kandahar killings submitted a chilling report to the Afghan parliament in Kabul earlier today, which alleges that the killings were not the rampage of a rogue sergeant, as Pentagon claims, but a planned massacre involving many troops and even US army helicopters. The team also alleged that two Afghan women were sexually assaulted by the US troops before they were shot. The team claimed that 15 to 20 American troops were involved and it was a case of revenge killing following some insurgent activity in the area. " http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2012/03/17/flood-gates-of-afghan-anger-are-opening/
For more info: http://google.com/?q=afghan+bales+%2215+to+20%22+massacre
Interesting is to review the killings which took place a few years ago in Haditha, Iraq. (Check out the write up in Wikipedia.) Some U.S. soldier got killed by an IED, U.S. Marines retaliated by murdering about 15 women, children, and elderly people. Sounds like this latest killing spree in Afghanistan is pretty much just regular U.S. military practice.
Bring our troops home now. How is this war in U.S. interest? We have no beef with the Taliban nor can we make over Afghan society & culture.
An illegal, immoral war waged through a terror campaign - night raids (killing, disappearing & torturing Afghanis based on tips ala the Phoenix Program in VN) & drone attacks - will warp and damage the fighters' souls. Bring 'em home now!
The U.S. military learned nothing from Vietnam. They seem to have decided that the win was stolen from them by the American media. So this time they embedded the media and ran a full-out psyop campaign against the American people.
Unfortunately, the peace movement also learned nothing -- again allowing controlled dissenters to take over (this is easy, lift the need to make a living from individuals and have these individuals volunteer to do important tasks, they will rise to control).
The proof of this is apparent in noting which protest groups get loudspeakers and sound systems from his imperialness, Mayor MIke. The incompetent peace movement, which couldn't even take Central Park with 300,000 people, always gets them. Incidentally, the People's Mic should have been called the Bloomberg Mic -- he forced its use by denying the use of megaphones.
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I agree with everything you've said here Shule.
I'd wager many US bombs have killed more accidentally and no one blinked
Could be so, I wouldn't be surprised. Not true that "no one blinked" though. Unless in constructing a roadside bomb and placing it where US troops and Afghan government officials are to be found one doesn't blink. I wouldn't know, I never handled explosives and wouldn't want to.
good point
I believe the "multiple-soldier" story is bs
one man went nuts -
the hell of this war - no wonder -
maybe ptsd
maybe head injury
I dont believe in capital punishment, but some crimes are so horrendous - there can be no forgiveness try him in an American court, if guilty - life in prison
While American brutality against Arabs is not excusable,
I am an American who condemns it -
I also know that Moslems/Arabs, since 1947,
have killed 10,000,000 Moslems/Arabs
Neither you nor I know what happened or how many did it. I am inclined to disbelieve first stories coming from a war incident and I am more inclined to believe villagers who say they were witnesses over Pentagon or NATO mouthpieces.
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I think it is human nature to want an answer to this kind of horror asap.
I hope there is no rush to judgment and we let justice TRY to find the truth. It MAY work or it MAY not. Unfortunately we are not just dealing with a mis-dropped bomb, we are dealing with what looks like wanton murder by an insane man - in a country where burning a book can cause dozens of deaths. Bizare on top of grotesque. I did not like Obama's book apology ( that could have come from a general) but this one was required
What Obama and Panetta must do everything physically possible to get out of there, lock stock and barrel right now.
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How bad must it be when the US troops who were to listen to the head of the Pentagon, Panetta, had their weapons taken from them before entering the tent where he was to speak to them? they say it's unprecedented. And an unauthorized truck drove onto the runway where Panetta's plane was taxiing in.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/03/troops-in-afghanistan-told-to-leave-guns-outside-panettas-tent.html
Malvina Reynolds- The Albatross
Calley sexually mutilated 100's of children and didn't even get his penis slapped by the US government.
Yes, ... please tell us that the US soldiers will be punished for doing their job, ...
They're programmed BOTS not unlike the assholes on this forum and the working orders are to instill fear in the villagers, ... it is done by genital mutilation and always has been so as preferred by the west.
The biggest problem today for the USA is/was the invention of the camera-phone, ... as otherwise all could/would be denied.
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thats what happens when you send young people out to die.. they learn to kill. and why on earth was he sent there 4 freakin times? blame penatta you know the warmongers love this kinda stuff.
True. These guys come back and become cops. Still I hope we ask those who return to tell younger people "we re chumps. don't do what we did."
so true
The current administration refers to the 13 people murdered by Nidal Hassan as "workplace violence".
Very true. But in the name of political correctness and white liberal fear of appearing to critisize anything remotely to do with Islam the government continues to delay and bury the Hassan incident.
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Our military is all voluntary, highly trained and professional. They are being abused by our foreign policy. 4,5, and 6 tours of duty are becoming commonplace, virtually making this a form of 'backdoor draft'.
They are fighting on multiple fronts and are involved in long term invasion/occupation tactics, which in order to be successful needs a lot of boots on the ground which they are lacking. Many are starting to break under this strain.
This latest incident is a lose/lose scenario. My condolences to the Afghan village and their losses. My condolences to the Soldier who broke down and his family as well. My sympathy to the vets coming home who can't cope. We have the highest number of homeless vets now than at any other time in history.
1- We don't know how many soldiers were involved. Afghan witnesses say it was several drunk and laughing soldiers. 2- Some reports tell us this lone gunman was suffering a mental breakdown, others that he was brain injured but cleared for return to service. You are not likely to get the real truth unless a brave second Private Manning steps up. As for the poor vets, let them preach far and wide to their younger brothers and sisters the following: "We are chumps. Don't be like us." In the best case scenario I want to know how a known mentally disturbed soldier was allowed to go off the base with a lethal weapon by himself.
Common sense & the ringing sound of truth makes most assume that it is more than one crazy soldier. The fact that the Afghan witness' story is treated with skepticism tells everything. It is all BIASED BS.
I am inclined to agree, but we need the whole truth.
Truth is a moving target with many perspectives. The whole truth may not even exist for anything when a paradigm shifts occurs making all irrelevant or even off by a degree. The Military is a rude lying lot not to be trusted. They had their time in the sun and deserve all the bad karma they will get.
"The Military is a rude lying lot not to be trusted. They had their time in the sun and deserve all the bad karma they will get."
I can't disagree here.
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What's to say that the Afghans story isn't biased as well? There is incentive for all to lie here. As I said we will never know what really happened.
Well it is all biased but the military is more biased. The Afghan witness is not taken seriously. It reminds me of Seinfeld where the doorman's eye witness account is not taken seriously because he is a doorman or in our case a Afghan. Get it.
I'm a scientist. I believe in objective facts.
'Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts: Eyewitness testimony is fickle and, all too often, shockingly inaccurate' http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=do-the-eyes-have-it
Courts have been plagued with eyewitness inaccuracies for years, what the article I listed addresses. The action took place at night and was very traumatic to those involved.
I won't create facts to fit my own narrative and bias... get it?
From what I've read, the villages' (there were 2 villages, some 3-4 miles apart) eyewitnesses' accounts were very consistent -- a strong reason to take them seriously.
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Still courts decide the fates of people based on eyewitness testimony.What else is there sometimes?
And how would you believe the words of a military spokesman who wasn't even near the event but NOT an Afghan villager who says he saw US soldiers kill his kin and burn their bodies?
There are forensics of all types: fibers, dna, blood, gun shot residue, ballistics testing - this being highly important because it could prove how many different types of weapons were used, each has it's own signature.... which might lead to how many people were involved.
All of these tests are objective in nature.
As I've stated, at this point I don't believe anybodys testimony because all of the parties involved have reason to lie.
"As I've stated, at this point I don't believe anybodys testimony because all of the parties involved have reason to lie."
I agree.
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There is nothing to get. A two year old is a scientist so this means nothing. To be human is to be a scientist. The old adage is: Who should I believe you or my lying eyes? I think my argument is too subtle for a Scientist to get. You need to be a philosopher to understand the subtle & sublime. There is no objective fact because it is all subjective because there always is a subject taking in the info. I think therefore I am. If you think otherwise you've tricked yourself.
Whatever you say Obi-Wan-Kanobi.
'I think my argument is too subtle for a Scientist to get.'
Your argument is ....'The Military is a rude lying lot not to be trusted. They had their time in the sun and deserve all the bad karma they will get.'
This is your narrative, and you will cherry pick or create information to back up this narrative and bias, regardless of what the truth may be. As of right now, no one here knows the truth of what happened there.
You may call yourself a philosopher, but philosophers are supposed to deal with uncovering the 'truth'.
I see what you mean & you see what I mean. What else can we write? Peace, love, & solidarity.
Peace and Solidarity.
The truth will never come out. It will always be one sources word against another.
All of this sorrow could have been avoided. Troops go where they are told to go. Our troops do not belong over there. Our foreign policy sucks.
I agree but the troops are responsible for what they do.
As for the poor vets, let them preach far and wide to their younger brothers and sisters the following: "We are chumps. Don't be like us.
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""NATO is staging "Massacre of Christians in Syria by Muslims", by bringing Al Qaida and other radical Islamists to Syria, in order to initiate a war, where they can nuke Iran, give a lesson to rising China, control Middle East oil resources, and allow some people to print as much money as they wish by using petrodollars, so they can control the society and the world through their wealth and power. This will also allow capitalism to continue by breaking the Eastern and the Socialist spirituality which is growing around the world and which is the biggest threat to capitalist ruling elite. ""
Sounds like something they'd do.
""NATO is staging "Massacre of Christians in Syria by Muslims", by bringing Al Qaida and other radical Islamists to Syria, in order to initiate a war, where they can nuke Iran, give a lesson to rising China, control Middle East oil resources, and allow some people to print as much money as they wish by using petrodollars,...
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So what are you saying, that an American committed a terrorist act ??? Say it isn't so...
Clearly the US has been committing terrorism in Afghanistan many years now.
We shoot up wedding parties from drone airplanes, we kill them and piss on their corpses, we burn their sacred books, we bust in their doors in the middle of the night and murder them and still the bastoards want us out! Why?!
I don't get it, either. You'd think they'd be more inviting, right?
maybe Islam doesn't value gratitude.
I don't know; should we pitch it to them again?
Fuck them. We tried to help them but they wouldn't accept our help after all these years of trying. Let them take care of their own problems. Yeah.
'fff' : FYI - "Afghanistan: "How Much Is Enough" ; The Military Industrial Complex Has Got Us By The Throat ! Jack Cafferty. (Video) ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30810.htm .
fiat pax ...
Thanks shadz66
'fff' + 6 = "54-46" !!! & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjg6flu3zuc ;-)